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Playing the piano taught me math (2016)
- tigerlily 5y agoI like learning of people's mnemonic sequences. Really nice how TFA was able to adapt their strategy to new, previously unencountered ideas like negative, hexadecimal. I'd truly like to know how Von Neumann remembered everything.
- C-x_C-f 5y ago> I'd truly like to know how Von Neumann remembered everything. I've been hearing claims of von Neumann's perfect memory for a long time on HN, but I've been unable to find primary sources to back them except for a single quotation by Herman Goldstine. Could the claim of "perfect memory" have been an exaggeration? Surely von Neumann had an exceptional memory, but truly remembering everything is extremely rare (some say impossible). If he did, I imagine that the psychologists at Princeton or the IAS would have caught wind of the mathematician with a perfect memory and wouldn't have missed a chance to examine him; all the more so since "true photographic memory has never been demonstrated to exist" [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory
- danboarder 5y agoMusic provided a framework for assigning numbers to fingers that I didn't grow up with. So I find myself counting using my fingers naturally but sometimes start with my index finger, and other times start with my thumb. I think his system is more intuitive and could be more useful but I'm not sure if I can relearn it as an adult and make it stick without a lot of practice! As an aside, my mother is French and learned math in France, and in her school she learned rather different methods for working out addition and multiplication. I remember doing a double-take the first time I saw how she worked out a problem when I was in grade school.
- kubb 5y agoIt taught the author to count, which is just a subset of math, though a lot of people might not care about the difference.
- rowanG077 5y agoI first thought the exact same thing as you. But this argument stretched to it's conclusion means no one know maths. Which very well might be your point. But then it loses any useful meaning. Even professional mathematicians are specialized in a small sub field of mathematics and there are huge parts they don't really know.
- wiredfool 5y agoIt taught me to count 1 2 3 4 over and over and over. And then I had to unlearn that so that no one else heard it.
- iso1210 5y agoI've been looking at music over the last year or so, bits of basic music theory. As a child I had no idea how linked to maths it was, and how much easier music is once you realise that it's just applied mathematics and touch typing
- grasshopperpurp 5y agoI've been doing the same. Are there any resources you've found particularly helpful? As a true beginner, the Music Matters YT channel does a great job of giving enough of the Why's without going so deep as to completely lose me. https://youtube.com/c/MusicMattersGB https://youtube.com/c/MusicMattersGB
- dfxm12 5y agoMy music theory teacher used to say that that music is the only art that's also a science. I think this headline should not be surprising to anyone who reads music.
- kaoD 5y agoI see philology/linguistics as quite science-y too. You can argue that's just the building blocks of the art (literature), but so is the science-y side of music (which we call "musical language" in Spanish conservatories, see the parallel?) and mostly deals with "syntax" and historical accidents inherited from the western Common Practice Period. The artsy side of music is very much un-sciency and mostly rationalized post-hoc.
- enricozb 5y agoI wish learning math would teach me how to play the piano...
- danwills 5y agoHooray for any tool (or workflow) that makes it easier to work with otherwise-abstract formulas! This way sounds to me like a handy method for everyday in-mind adding and subtracting too.. I definitely aspire to upgrade my understanding of notes and frequencies to the point where I can connect them to the math!
- lolive 5y agoThis video (in French, with english subtitles) helped me figure out the mathematical side of music. Highly recommended. https://youtu.be/cTYvCpLRwao https://youtu.be/cTYvCpLRwao
- msravi 5y ago> When all my first-grade classmates were memorizing math facts like “2 + 3 = 5” > I was called out during class when my teacher saw me fiddling with my fingers during a classroom exercise From their LinkedIn profile, it appears that the author went to school in the US. I'm not from the US, but my impression of US schools is the complete opposite of one where students are taught to "memorize math facts" or one where students get "called out" for doing something in a different way. In fact, from the many workbooks that I see on the net, my impression is one where a lot of pain is taken to ensure that students understand the material without resorting to rote memorization. Also, my impression is that students, if they show independence of thought or potential in an area, are given a lot of support to pursue it from within the schooling system in the form of being put on accelerated paths, freedom to attend classes of higher grades, etc. In contrast, many other countries have rigid grade structures, where students are forced to stick to the level of discourse in their grade in school, and can only pursue their interest outside the schooling system. Perhaps some of the European systems have it better, but this flexibility to rise beyond your grade within the school system is something that isn't available in a LOT of countries.
- spywaregorilla 5y agoI think there's significant variance, but I don't think this is necessarily the norm. Everyone must memorize some basic tables as well as standard algorithms, but I wouldn't say it ever struck me as a problem. The only exception to this for me was pre-calc, in which they taught us trigonometry rules without explaining it's basic relationships to the unit circle. Our calculus teacher was dumbfounded the next year when we had no intuitive understanding for these things. It took an hour to correct. No big loss. Shrug.
- C19is20 5y agoMusic...where 3 + 3 = 5. Ie c to e is a third, and e to g is a third, but c to g is a fifth.
- nixpulvis 5y agoNothing like some good ol' off by one errors.
- edejong 5y agoMusic and piano playing taught me things about (math related): - Exponentials and logarithms - Harmonic series - Combinatorics - Chaos theory - Some calculus - Resonance - Linear algebra It also taught me about physics, cognitive psychology, learning theory, history and even some sociology.
- jvvw 5y agoComing from the opposite direction, I'm quite curious as to where the linear algebra and combinatorics fit in. As a former mathematician (switched to computing after one post-doc) who has been trying to learn about music and to play the piano, I'm trying to make sense of how music and mathematics relate. There's some stuff with group actions going on - I think you can think of a dihedral group acting on sets of triads or something along those lines and there are some articles out there about that, but I feel like I don't have a good mapping in my head as to the relationship between music and mathematics.
- graphpapa 5y agoI can see combinatorics relating in the sense that exploring the space of potential compositions can be approached as a ‘combination of’ type problem for different elements.. chords as combinations of notes, chord progressions as combinations/orderings of chords, likewise for the order of notes in an arpeggio.. rhythms/grooves can be thought of as like combinations of emphasised beats (emphasis on 2 & the and of 3 vs. emphasis on 1 & the and of 3 for example) at different levels of beat-subdivision.. then the sounds each emphasised beat can take come from a discrete set (kick, snare etc.) so can be thought of as another combination-of type problem. many possibilities. Perhaps this is not what the GP meant though, I’m curious about however it applies. No idea about where linear algebra could fit in, I have yet to see those parallels myself yet but interesting to think how it could relate
- edejong 5y agoW.r.t. combinatorics: I was thinking of tuning systems and scales. I have always thought about the theory, but never written it down. Some other people actually did a much better job than me: http://andrewduncan.net/cmt/ http://andrewduncan.net/cmt/ W.r.t. linear algebra: mostly in relation to sound synthesis, but also in relation to music composition, theory of overtones, piano tunings... You ask, I'll explain.
- scop 5y agoThis reminds me of how I became a better guitar player by learning piano. I had been playing guitar (classical & metal mostly) for about 15 years before learning piano. Upon learning some basic piano, I found the guitar fretboard came alive in entirely new ways. I believe this to be a result of the piano keyboard having a visually clear and uniform organization of notes, enabling me to "see" how music theory operated in a more visceral way.
- bjornjajayaja 5y agoInteresting because this idea touches on a few things: 1) Effective data visualization is extremely beneficial for the learning process; 2) Combining sensory experiences together enhance learning process; For instance, on piano you can see AND hear the intervals on a scale. Strangely though, outside of elementary school there’s less emphasis on tactile learning—and no football is not the same thing. Art teaches the mind how to think outside the box and in creative ways. It also taps into the subconscious and allows us to learn and communicate better.
- elliekelly 5y agoLearning philosophy and then logic and then computer programming taught me math. Or at least taught me how to understand math in a way I’d never been able to in all my many years of education. It makes me wonder how many kids are missing out because we’re focused on teaching math one specific way even though it’s quite clear the way we’re teaching it just doesn’t “click” for a lot of students.
- schwich 5y agoWould you mind expanding on this? What philosophy did you learn? What logic? I'm interested in this approach to learning math.
- jedimastert 5y agoThis is generally why all music college students take piano lessons as a form of "gen-ed". It gives a base every teacher can start from
- pvaldes 5y agoMy math teacher taught me math. Playing the piano taught me that I'm not a good piano player.