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This is taken from the perspective of an Indian, with respect to outsourcing to India. I personally have had the same problem in the past (with India) so I look
by inovica 18y ago
This is taken from the perspective of an Indian, with respect to outsourcing to India. I personally have had the same problem in the past (with India) so I looked around. In the end I settled on outsourcing, in a slightly different way, to some guys in Russia, Latvia and Brazil. The short version (which I appreciate is still quite long!) is:
1. I employed individuals, not companies. It took more time, but I got good quality people on board. This is 8 years ago when I started, so I think I speak from experience.
2. The initial guys I started to work with, I have now made partners in some of what we do (sourceguardian.com as one example - they are full partners in it). Reward well and treat people with respect. It goes a long way.
3. I usually start with small tasks and build up. This way you can assess quality of code, but of equal importance you can also recognise if someone is motivated and who will deliver to deadlines. Anyone who misses immediately, I don't use again. Harsh, but it works for me.
4. I was not a programmer when I started. I appreciate this is Hacker News, but we're not all born like that and indeed it was never my dream. I learned to program so that I could put myself in the mind of the people I was working with. Worked for me, and guess what?... I enjoyed it. I'm still not a good or fast programmer, but I can converse more accurately what I want with the knowledge of what will work
I find it annoying when people put their own personal perspective as some kind of universal law. Outsourcing maybe sucks for many people, due to their experiences, but for me personally it has allowed me great freedom in my business and has introduced me to more cultures and more people than I would have otherwise.
- sant0sk1 18y agoAs a software consultant, I always want companies to outsource their programming tasks...to me! ;-) But seriously, I agree with your take, inovica, I was frustrated with the quality of work (and integrity of the workers) when trying to cut costs and hire Indian programmers. So I looked elsewhere and have been very pleased with the results I've gotten by working very closely with Russian programmers. A blanket statement such as "outsourcing sucks" isn't helpful to anybody seriously considering it. It's also link bait, imo.
- timr 18y agoYou're kind of doing the same thing -- the fact that you've had good experiences with Russian programmers doesn't mean that Russian programmers are good, and Indian programmers are bad. I've had very bad experiences with Russian coders (not by choice). I think the parent's point was that some outsourced people are good, and that you just have to take time to find the pearls in the (giant, steaming, rancid) piles of oyster guts. The bigger problem with outsourcing, if you ask me, is the communication delay. It's nearly impossible to build a team when they're thousands of miles (and 12 time zones) away.
- Retric 18y agoI would suggest looking in India for coders and paying them 40-50k/year in India. The idea is to skim the top talent out of the market and maintain quality not just add people at the lowest cost possible.
- netcan 18y agoI think he was commenting on the software outsourcing in India industry, at its current state rather then the concept of outsourcing in general.