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Isfreenodedeadyet – Tracking Freenode to Libera.Chat Migration

212 points by st_goliath 5y ago

kadoban 5y ago
For anyone who doesn't know, IRC users have a _lot_ of inertia. It's common to stay logged in and idle for weeks/months/years at a time. The bandwidth used is negligible, and IRC natively doesn't have backlogs unless you're logged in the whole time. So I'd assume these numbers include tons of people who just have no idea anything happened yet. It also includes people like me who are just signed in to both until my last couple of groups switch out.
- kemayo 5y ago
  The Libera users count is probably decently representative of recently-active people, just because they'd have had to take deliberate action to sign in there within the last month. The Freenode numbers, though...
  - pedrocr 5y ago
    That can be seen in the volume numbers. Libera seems to already have a lot more chat volume even though it still has only 2/3 of the users.
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    I used to have a detached screen with irssi sitting on a server for a very long time after I actually had stopped checking in on it. The only reason it's not still running is because eventually the server that I had the detached screen sitting on was decommissioned. (Ok, admittedly it was probably rebooted a couple of times between that I stopped attaching my screen session and when it was decommissioned. But the server used to be up for hundreds of days at a time without reboots so the point still stands that I "was" on IRC for a long while even after I had stopped "being" on IRC. I don't even remember anymore if I was connected to freenode or IRCnet or both though.)
- antiterra 5y ago
  I connected to freenode as a tourist because of all this stuff and left myself logged in. Otherwise I haven’t been on for years. I doubt I’m the only one who is just there to see what happens long-term who will drop off at some point soon.
- hutrdvnj 5y ago
  It's kind of funny to think of those users that reconnect to their bouncers in a few years from now, see that everyone else left the channel and think: "WTF has happened?"
2bitencryption 5y ago
I find some dark humor in the fact that someone, somewhere, decided to pay a big chunk of cash for Freenode... and now that same person must be aware there is a website called isfreenodedeadyet.com tracking its inevitable demise, as a direct result of their purchase (and subsequent bad acting).
- obedm 5y ago
  Truly magnificent isn't it? It's also a testament to the beauty of IRC. "we don't like the change. So here's a viable alternative". We could say something similar happened with WhatsApp, but the difficulty of moving everyone to another platform is so much harder.
  - echelon 5y ago
    The difference is that * IRC users have the technical acumen to move. * IRC users aren't strangers to setting things up and configuring them, so the switching cost isn't as big * There's a shared ethos about IRC, but not so much for an app that reaches everybody on the planet. You can convince one demographic much easier than all of them.
    - geofft 5y ago
      Not just "technical acumen" - the clients are designed to connect to multiple networks and treat them equally. Literally nothing about my user experience is different now that I'm no longer logged into Freenode. Non-technical users have the same sort of experience e.g. switching cell phone providers (provided your area has number portability), switching between subreddits, etc., and those moves definitely happen.
    - luke2m 5y ago
      The difference is that * IRC is interoperable and easy to change servers, unlike apps with proprietary protocols. If Yahoo started doing horrible things with their email, then people who notice would switch to GMail or another host.
beprogrammed 5y ago
Great site, I was waiting for one of these.
TameAntelope 5y ago
Off topic, but I really love DataDog, I just wish their pricing was more transparent.
- faeyanpiraat 5y ago
  Is this as relevant a comment in this topic as me saying I like pizza, or am I missing something? Btw I used datadog like 5yrs ago when they had a decent free plan for one server and I loved it aswell. Transitioned to frontend dev recently so I have no use it for now though. Edit: okay so the site uses datadog charts, now I get your comment.
pedrocr 5y ago
https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php For a more historical view
tpxl 5y ago
I like schadenfreude as much as the next guy, but some of these graphs are just plain awful. The registered channels for freenode shows them plummeting, while the actual difference is about 0.5%.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  The ones with the big "NOT TO SCALE / EASILY MISLEADING, PAY ATTENTION TO AXES" labels in their titles?
amanzi 5y ago
That's interesting - I've never seen a Datadog dashboard used like this. Quite powerful.
obnauticus 5y ago
I used to run one of the more populated channels on freenode before one of they killed nickserv registration without notifying anyone. As a result I lost chanserv access and the oper/freenode staff member I contacted “couldn’t prove I was the actual owner”. I think that freenode has suffered from chronic mismanagement for years. I professionally worked with some members in the channel who attested to my identity and true ownership of the channel and I offered to provide a signed pgp message using my registered email to prove that I owned the channel using a domain name that I own which matched all of my information (basically a true cryptographic proof of identity). Instead of this, the oper made me announce my intentions to “re-take over” the channel to the other members saying that if nobody contested then he’d return ownership. I did this for about four months every week. Then the oper decided to give owner perms to his friend saying that I wasn’t active enough to administer the channel. After his buddy took over the channel, there have been no administrative actions taken (ie no mode changed) because there haven’t needed to be any? It’s almost as if I knew how to administer an IRC channel and configured it in a way where it didn’t need to be touched? Either way it was pretty much a slap in the face after spending years growing a community for their platform. If anyone is a member of this channel and wants to start fresh ##embedded channel somewhere else, happy to do so. I hope others do the same. Looks like the former staff member resigned recently. Good on you buddy. But you still have a special place on my no fly list :).
- kowlo 5y ago
  Where did the link (https://andmaybegayer.tumblr.com/post/651612929639284736/jess-jessfreenodestaffjess-global https://andmaybegayer.tumblr.com/post/651612929639284736/jes...) to the former staff member go?
  - obnauticus 5y ago
    Decided it was best to leave names out.
- makomk 5y ago
  If I'm following this all correctly, the former staff member who decided to give your channel to their friend is staff for the New and Better(tm) replacement to Freenode that all the open source projects are being encouraged to move to. You know, the one that is obviously so much more trustworthy because all the previous Freenode staff are behind it.
Black101 5y ago
I'm never going to go on libera.chat... I use IRC networks, but I don't even use Freenode.
- chris_wot 5y ago
  Good for you?
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  If you never used Freenode, why would you? Libera is just good ol' Freenode minus its old trademark.
  - Black101 5y ago
    I used to use Freenode...
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      Use Libera if and only if you want to communicate with the people who used Freenode. (Actually, if you want to communicate with the people who currently use Libera; there are people who use Libera who never used IRC before, and a some old Freenode users who have followed their communities elsewhere.)
      - Black101 5y ago
        I think that both, freenode and libera will end up dead. I sure hope that Libera stops spamming soon though...
        SaberUK 5y ago
        Libera Chat is not responsible for the spam. It's a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job.
        immibis 5y ago
        hey freenode staff here. SPAM SPAM SPAM. BUY OUR STUFF. WE CAN SELL YOU CHEAP BITCOINS OR WHATEVER. notice that just because I said I'm freenode staff... that doesn't actually make me freenode staff.
Lammy 5y ago
I don't understand how to read some of these graphs, especially the Globally Online Users Trend. It says "NOT TO SCALE, PAY ATTENTION TO AXES", but the numbers don't even seem to add up. The Freenode Users line is around ~48k right now according to the hover-card and sits at 48k on the graph axis as expected. The Libera Users line represents ~31k users according to the hover-card but sits at 54k on the axis. I've seen stacked graphs before, but 48+31 isn't 54 so I am not sure if that's what it's trying to show. Maybe I need more sleep :(
- kunagi7 5y ago
  The left axis* has the online user count scale of freenode (46k - 56k), currently at 48k. The right axis* has the scale for libera (20k-36k) currently at 31.2k. It's a really confusing graph so maybe another kind of graph could represent this data better. * fixed!
  - db48x 5y ago
    s/axe/axis/g
  - lolinder 5y ago
    It doesn't need to be a different kind of graph, it just needs to use consistent axes. It's very weird to have the left and right labels be different when the units are the same. It'd be one thing if it were two different quantities being measured, but we're explicitly meant to be comparing Freenode to Libera.chat, so they should really be plotted on the same axis.
  - Lammy 5y ago
    Oh I see. The right axis doesn't render properly and I assumed it was just some kind of glyph: https://i.imgur.com/t4CeS1u.png https://i.imgur.com/t4CeS1u.png
    - zzo38computer 5y ago
      The picture look like maybe the labels on the right axis are rendered with too thick fonts so that they are unreadable. Do you have the raw data from which the graph is produced (without JavaScripts or pictures)?
kaladin_1 5y ago
Nice visualization... Please, which tool(s) did you use for the charts?
- kcmastrpc 5y ago
  Datadog
dom96 5y ago
It looks like it's only a matter of time until we are looking at the demise of Private Internet Access (a VPN service owned by the person that bought Freenode).

212 points by st_goliath 5y ago

For anyone who doesn't know, IRC users have a _lot_ of inertia. It's common to stay logged in and idle for weeks/months/years at a time. The bandwidth used is negligible, and IRC natively doesn't have backlogs unless you're logged in the whole time. So I'd assume these numbers include tons of people who just have no idea anything happened yet. It also includes people like me who are just signed in to both until my last couple of groups switch out.

kemayo 5y ago
The Libera users count is probably decently representative of recently-active people, just because they'd have had to take deliberate action to sign in there within the last month. The Freenode numbers, though...
- pedrocr 5y ago
  That can be seen in the volume numbers. Libera seems to already have a lot more chat volume even though it still has only 2/3 of the users.
- codetrotter 5y ago
  I used to have a detached screen with irssi sitting on a server for a very long time after I actually had stopped checking in on it. The only reason it's not still running is because eventually the server that I had the detached screen sitting on was decommissioned. (Ok, admittedly it was probably rebooted a couple of times between that I stopped attaching my screen session and when it was decommissioned. But the server used to be up for hundreds of days at a time without reboots so the point still stands that I "was" on IRC for a long while even after I had stopped "being" on IRC. I don't even remember anymore if I was connected to freenode or IRCnet or both though.)
antiterra 5y ago
I connected to freenode as a tourist because of all this stuff and left myself logged in. Otherwise I haven’t been on for years. I doubt I’m the only one who is just there to see what happens long-term who will drop off at some point soon.
hutrdvnj 5y ago
It's kind of funny to think of those users that reconnect to their bouncers in a few years from now, see that everyone else left the channel and think: "WTF has happened?"

2bitencryption 5y ago

I find some dark humor in the fact that someone, somewhere, decided to pay a big chunk of cash for Freenode... and now that same person must be aware there is a website called isfreenodedeadyet.com tracking its inevitable demise, as a direct result of their purchase (and subsequent bad acting).

obedm 5y ago
Truly magnificent isn't it? It's also a testament to the beauty of IRC. "we don't like the change. So here's a viable alternative". We could say something similar happened with WhatsApp, but the difficulty of moving everyone to another platform is so much harder.
- echelon 5y ago
  The difference is that * IRC users have the technical acumen to move. * IRC users aren't strangers to setting things up and configuring them, so the switching cost isn't as big * There's a shared ethos about IRC, but not so much for an app that reaches everybody on the planet. You can convince one demographic much easier than all of them.
  - geofft 5y ago
    Not just "technical acumen" - the clients are designed to connect to multiple networks and treat them equally. Literally nothing about my user experience is different now that I'm no longer logged into Freenode. Non-technical users have the same sort of experience e.g. switching cell phone providers (provided your area has number portability), switching between subreddits, etc., and those moves definitely happen.
  - luke2m 5y ago
    The difference is that * IRC is interoperable and easy to change servers, unlike apps with proprietary protocols. If Yahoo started doing horrible things with their email, then people who notice would switch to GMail or another host.

beprogrammed 5y ago

Great site, I was waiting for one of these.

TameAntelope 5y ago

Off topic, but I really love DataDog, I just wish their pricing was more transparent.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
Is this as relevant a comment in this topic as me saying I like pizza, or am I missing something? Btw I used datadog like 5yrs ago when they had a decent free plan for one server and I loved it aswell. Transitioned to frontend dev recently so I have no use it for now though. Edit: okay so the site uses datadog charts, now I get your comment.

pedrocr 5y ago

https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php For a more historical view

tpxl 5y ago

I like schadenfreude as much as the next guy, but some of these graphs are just plain awful. The registered channels for freenode shows them plummeting, while the actual difference is about 0.5%.

lamontcg 5y ago
The ones with the big "NOT TO SCALE / EASILY MISLEADING, PAY ATTENTION TO AXES" labels in their titles?

amanzi 5y ago

That's interesting - I've never seen a Datadog dashboard used like this. Quite powerful.

obnauticus 5y ago

I used to run one of the more populated channels on freenode before one of they killed nickserv registration without notifying anyone. As a result I lost chanserv access and the oper/freenode staff member I contacted “couldn’t prove I was the actual owner”. I think that freenode has suffered from chronic mismanagement for years. I professionally worked with some members in the channel who attested to my identity and true ownership of the channel and I offered to provide a signed pgp message using my registered email to prove that I owned the channel using a domain name that I own which matched all of my information (basically a true cryptographic proof of identity). Instead of this, the oper made me announce my intentions to “re-take over” the channel to the other members saying that if nobody contested then he’d return ownership. I did this for about four months every week. Then the oper decided to give owner perms to his friend saying that I wasn’t active enough to administer the channel. After his buddy took over the channel, there have been no administrative actions taken (ie no mode changed) because there haven’t needed to be any? It’s almost as if I knew how to administer an IRC channel and configured it in a way where it didn’t need to be touched? Either way it was pretty much a slap in the face after spending years growing a community for their platform. If anyone is a member of this channel and wants to start fresh ##embedded channel somewhere else, happy to do so. I hope others do the same. Looks like the former staff member resigned recently. Good on you buddy. But you still have a special place on my no fly list :).

kowlo 5y ago
Where did the link (https://andmaybegayer.tumblr.com/post/651612929639284736/jess-jessfreenodestaffjess-global https://andmaybegayer.tumblr.com/post/651612929639284736/jes...) to the former staff member go?
- obnauticus 5y ago
  Decided it was best to leave names out.
makomk 5y ago
If I'm following this all correctly, the former staff member who decided to give your channel to their friend is staff for the New and Better(tm) replacement to Freenode that all the open source projects are being encouraged to move to. You know, the one that is obviously so much more trustworthy because all the previous Freenode staff are behind it.

Black101 5y ago

I'm never going to go on libera.chat... I use IRC networks, but I don't even use Freenode.

chris_wot 5y ago
Good for you?
wizzwizz4 5y ago
If you never used Freenode, why would you? Libera is just good ol' Freenode minus its old trademark.
- Black101 5y ago
  I used to use Freenode...
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    Use Libera if and only if you want to communicate with the people who used Freenode. (Actually, if you want to communicate with the people who currently use Libera; there are people who use Libera who never used IRC before, and a some old Freenode users who have followed their communities elsewhere.)
    - Black101 5y ago
      I think that both, freenode and libera will end up dead. I sure hope that Libera stops spamming soon though...
      - SaberUK 5y ago
        Libera Chat is not responsible for the spam. It's a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job.
      - immibis 5y ago
        hey freenode staff here. SPAM SPAM SPAM. BUY OUR STUFF. WE CAN SELL YOU CHEAP BITCOINS OR WHATEVER. notice that just because I said I'm freenode staff... that doesn't actually make me freenode staff.

Lammy 5y ago

I don't understand how to read some of these graphs, especially the Globally Online Users Trend. It says "NOT TO SCALE, PAY ATTENTION TO AXES", but the numbers don't even seem to add up. The Freenode Users line is around ~48k right now according to the hover-card and sits at 48k on the graph axis as expected. The Libera Users line represents ~31k users according to the hover-card but sits at 54k on the axis. I've seen stacked graphs before, but 48+31 isn't 54 so I am not sure if that's what it's trying to show. Maybe I need more sleep :(

kunagi7 5y ago
The left axis* has the online user count scale of freenode (46k - 56k), currently at 48k. The right axis* has the scale for libera (20k-36k) currently at 31.2k. It's a really confusing graph so maybe another kind of graph could represent this data better. * fixed!
- db48x 5y ago
  s/axe/axis/g
- lolinder 5y ago
  It doesn't need to be a different kind of graph, it just needs to use consistent axes. It's very weird to have the left and right labels be different when the units are the same. It'd be one thing if it were two different quantities being measured, but we're explicitly meant to be comparing Freenode to Libera.chat, so they should really be plotted on the same axis.
- Lammy 5y ago
  Oh I see. The right axis doesn't render properly and I assumed it was just some kind of glyph: https://i.imgur.com/t4CeS1u.png https://i.imgur.com/t4CeS1u.png
  - zzo38computer 5y ago
    The picture look like maybe the labels on the right axis are rendered with too thick fonts so that they are unreadable. Do you have the raw data from which the graph is produced (without JavaScripts or pictures)?

kaladin_1 5y ago

Nice visualization... Please, which tool(s) did you use for the charts?

kcmastrpc 5y ago
Datadog

dom96 5y ago

It looks like it's only a matter of time until we are looking at the demise of Private Internet Access (a VPN service owned by the person that bought Freenode).