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...and then Israel can build its own fighter jets? Count us in! It's not "aid." It's fiscal transfer to vassal states (though 75% of it really goes to US corpo
by yosefk 5y ago
...and then Israel can build its own fighter jets? Count us in!
It's not "aid." It's fiscal transfer to vassal states (though 75% of it really goes to US corporations' pockets - aid isn't dollars but vouchers to spend on US products at 4x the market price) within the US empire. Just ask any non-voting subject of the empire.
BTW in numbers it's $4B/year - $3B to US firms, $1B to Israel. Our GDP is about $400B. Would we buy our independence for $1B per year, if the US was selling/if the world worked that way? You bet!
(And don't get me wrong, it might be the best empire to be the vassal of for Israel which is too small to be independent. Just let's call it what it is.)
- 29athrowaway 5y agoIsrael is known for selling arms to regimes that abuse human rights. Like Myanmar.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Israel is known for selling arms to regimes that abuse human rights. Also, for being such a regime.
- redisman 5y agoThis is absurdly selective. Are there any arms manufacturing countries, including the Saints in EU and US who haven’t sold arms to repressive regimes? You don’t even have to scratch the surface. Is Saudi Arabia a freedom loving democracy?
- 29athrowaway 5y ago1. Is this discussion about the Saudi Arabian government or the Israeli government? I also have stuff to say about Saudis too but that's not the topic right now. 2. "Oh but, what about <X>"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism And by the way I am not anti-semitic, if that is what you were trying to imply with "absurdly selective". Israel has many high value products to export besides weapons. Israel can enjoy prosperity without having to resort to trading weapons with such regimes.
- redisman 5y agoI don’t think it’s whataboutism if every country in the set does it. It’s just a part of being in the business of war. If you sell arms to resolve geopolitical conflict, you’ve eventually got blood on your hands no matter how much due diligence you do.
- 29athrowaway 5y agoDo you think not talking about problems will make the world better? What do you suggest I do instead? We should talk about problems when we encounter them. The more specific the better.
- raincom 5y agoWhy should Israeli weapon manufacturers be held to higher evaluative standards than others? Whataboutism is useless to answer this question; it is a stick to beat your opponents in order to stop pursuing this line of questioning.
- 29athrowaway 5y agoIs it not the point of Israel to be a Jewish state? Judaism imposes duties on each Jew. Religious duties in the form of commandments. How about following those commandments? If you say the commandments do not matter then you are saying that as a Jew, Judaism doesn't matter. In that case, you don't need a state don't you? If you want to be free to practice your religion, do it. But do it properly, not only the parts you like.
- radycov 5y agoCompletely true, Rwanda (details suppressed by courts), Bosnian massacre... you name it.
- dang 5y agoIt looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. We ban accounts that do that, regardless of what they're battling for or against, because it's destructive of what HN is supposed to be for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting in the future, we'd be grateful. That means thoughtful, substantive comments that engage with curiosity rather than enemies. Edit: it looks like we've had to warn you about this multiple times before. Please fix this.
- 29athrowaway 5y agoAgreed, dang. I'll abstain from doing that in the future.
- throwntoday 5y agoI see this argument often and it is pretty ridiculous. Israel is still the beneficiary of billions of dollars worth of US taxpayer dollars every year. We shouldn't be spending that kind of money on your nations security when we have homeless and starving Americans not being taken care of.
- xander158 5y agoSince Israel has to spend the money on US hardware, that money actually goes to maintain Jobs in the US military industry.
- 34679 5y agoMaybe giving away killing machines isn't the best way to stimulate the economy.
- philjackson 5y ago> Since Israel has to spend the money on US hardware, that money actually goes to maintain Jobs in the US military industry. What a shitty cycle.
- shrimp_emoji 5y agoYes, a shitty cycle in a shitty world. If not for the threat of China, I don't think the U.S. military industrial complex would have as much merit, but, under that (growing) threat, I think anyone who values freedom, democracy, and progressive ideals should see merit in the U.S. maintaining and growing capability. To do that, it seems like the defense industry needs "stuff to do". Like a muscle, that sector atrophies if left unused. It's counterintuitive, though -- why spend so much money on a glorified Skunk Works project like the F35? Why double down and start producing hundreds of them despite their issues? Because it generates/maintains experience and lessons and keeps the metabolic pathways that turn material into materiel active. If you skipped the extra steps and had the government just sustain the defense industry on welfare while it does nothing right up until we have a massive conflict, things are going to go much more poorly for you.
- pmoriarty 5y ago"It's fiscal transfer to vassal states" So what does Israel do in return?
- sharikone 5y agoProvide technology to the US and a testing field for US developments. The Patriot anti-missile systems were shit before Israeli technology was used to improve them.
- pmoriarty 5y agoIt's not like Israel wouldn't have happily sold that tech to the US even if it got zero military aid from them.