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India somehow had stumbled and took a turn towards the Hindu right wing majoritarianism/ultra nationalism. It has certainly caused long term effects, the pace o

by publicola1990 5y ago

India somehow had stumbled and took a turn towards the Hindu right wing majoritarianism/ultra nationalism. It has certainly caused long term effects, the pace of reforms has slowed down considerably. Major policy decisions seems to be stuck in limbo for years, for example regarding Walmart: atleast for 10 years Walmart trying to start retail operations in India, but government hasn't given clarity on policy. Similarly in many many other fields and subjects there has been policy paralysis for last 10 years if not for more. Not to mension the amount of repression etc the present ruling party indulges in.. 15 years ago India looked like it would evolve into a country and society with liberal western values, but it hasn't made progress in recent years, but rather it has regressed.

naruvimama 5y ago
"Western values" isn't all that great. It is primarily focused on attacking the "other" or "non-believers" Feminism - attack men Communism - attack the rich Wokeism - attack non-believers "liberalism" - attack non-believers Atheism - attack believers It all comes from Christianity - attack non-believers (esp. idolators) The western frameworks are all built on this same framework, every new movement that comes out of it is bound to create more conflicts. The western world is thankfully Indianising with yoga and vegetarianism, hopefully the future is Dharmic.
- radiator 5y ago
  Feminism does not attack men, it attacks families.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  It comes from Christianity for sure but a Western youth culture interpretation of it, heavily influenced by foreign actors from the USSR (see the Mitrokhin papers proving their psyop influence campaigns on Western academia) and Maoist China (via the Gang of Four campaign to "Destroy the Four Olds" of China's traditional heritage, which was hugely influential in Western youth culture). The West used to be acknowledged as a promoter of freedom before the 1960s and 1970s. We should expect that "dharmic" traditions will be twisted in a similar way by future radical movements, such as the "Pure Land" buddhist movement of Japan.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    > a promoter of freedom before the 1960s and 1970s That would be ironic considering that they had not completely freed many of their colonies yet.
    - cptsmrk 5y ago
      Sure, we've often failed to live up to our values. One of the baddest-ass diplomatic moments in modern history was in the 50s when India's UN ambassador read the US Declaration of Independence in protest of its support for colonial regimes in the name of anti-Communism. But the hypocrisy of the west in applying those values doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile or worth fighting for.
      - naruvimama 5y ago
        Which is precisely the argument. Exporting and enforcing values that you do not yourself follow. Do as I say not what I do.
        Goety 5y ago
        The west is about to write the book on how to deal with the deterioration of democratic values.
- random314 5y ago
  This post is an example of the wild fantasies indulged by the followers of hindutva where India is forever on the precipice of taking over the world intellectually and to an extent territorially. In this future liberalism will be consigned to the garbage can and ethno nationalism and fascism centered on Hinduism will reign supreme. The popularity of yoga is hilariously touted as a precursor of things to come. The prime minister has created an "international" yoga day. They assume this will be followed by international adoption of ayurveda, cow "science", cow worship, renaming of several mathematical and scientific discoveries after Indian gurus who supposedly discovered everything originally in the veda. The don't seem to be aware that modern yoga practised in the west is a modern invention by an Indian fitness instructor who was attempting to capture a portion of the American fitness market jumpstarted by eugen sandow. Most of the so called asanas have been incorporated into yoga from modern gymnastics.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > ethno nationalism and fascism centered on Hinduism will reign supreme. Hey, if nationalism and fascism (ethnic or otherwise) are going to reign supreme anyway in this "Brave New World" of Fake News Media and Fake Social Media, I'll gladly root for the Hindu version over others. I'd rather worship actual cows than the newfangled "sacred cows" that are being pushed by some parts of the West.
    - cptsmrk 5y ago
      It's like you erected two straw men and are trying to convince us one of them is bronze.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    This was in response to the OP about western values. Are you not sick and tired of a colonial propaganda of attributing everything to the west. I pity people who actually believe Renaissance or Industrial revolution was something that happened overnight. Even as the "liberal" elite and evangelists try to force their agenda on the rest of the world, their own homesteads are turning more dharmic.
- hnedeotes 5y ago
  Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, and the Indian government has gone to huge lengths to help former pariahs/untouchables (now properly called Dalit) improve their education and social status. To the point where the formerly privileged non-Dalit are now complaining that they don't get anywhere like the same attention from government and are at risk of being left by the wayside. These complaints might be overblown for sure, but the underlying efforts to redress these wrongs cannot be denied.
    - hnedeotes 5y ago
      This was not to say that those things were left unattended or no effort has been made, it was in the context of the parent comment - dharmic definitions, and ideas, are fallible as everything else and can be corrupted and lead to the same or worse outcomes and they can mingle good ideas (Vegetarianism) with bad ideas (Casts).
      - zozbot234 5y ago
        Untouchability was never a dharmic definition or idea. The Vedic texts talk about there being four proper "callings" in life but make no mention of any social outcaste status, and the elaborate system of caste was a result of unrelated developments, similar to the ones which created the rigid social systems of the West in the Middle-Ages.
    - dominotw 5y ago
      > Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, How many municipal workers cleaning streets and toilets are from higher castes ?
  - 5y ago
- orwin 5y ago
  Did you see any atheist kill someone because he was religious? Or even attack some believer for the sake of attacking? This is way to much strawman for me . And I did believe what you said in another post on Modi as governor, now i guess I'll have to check myself.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    There were in fact many such incidents of persecution and even outright massacres, including in post-revolutionary France, early-20th-century Mexico, and still later in North Korea, Albania and Khmer-Rouge Cambodia. Contrary to common misconceptions, atheism is not inherently more rational or freedom-oriented than any other religious stances.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    Attack does not mean physically. The only identity of a western atheist is that they are against believers.
  - random314 5y ago
    From his comment history, search for Pakistan. It's a flagged post. He is openly racist and hates Muslims. "Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence," This is why he votes for modi. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama Development of gujarat under modi is a fig leaf for the underlying reason for voting for modi. The motivations are right wing religious ethno fascism. The others in this case are muslims, with Christians and Sikhs being discriminated on a more opportunistic basis. Their vote for modi is in the hopes of building a hindu religious ethno state along Nazi principles with the muslims playing the role of German Jews. This idea is being heavily propagandize through social media, primarily WhatsApps encrypted channels. The religious frenzy being built up in the country is absolutely unreal. Well educated software engineers have also been completely absorbed into this fold, as you can observe from the comments.
    - naruvimama 5y ago
      > He is openly racist and hates Muslims Indian Muslims are the same race as Hindus. I distrust Islam just like the vast majority of the world. Muslims are victims of Islam, especially Indian Muslims because it was never their choice. There isn't a single muslim country to the west of India that has any minority rights. An overwhelming 87% of Indian Muslim voted for the Muslim league and hence the creation of Pakistan. That is political Islam and it has killed millions of Hindus in the past 70 years. One big problem with Muslims is that they always think of themselves as victims but seem to have no remorse for the millions of kafirs they have killed. I do not want India to turn into a Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. > Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence That was in response to your mention of Gujarat. The whole incident started when Muslim mobs burnt alive 59 Hindu pilgrims including children. Clearly they had planned for violence and were sufficiently armed. This has always been the case with Muslims around the world. Start the violence and cry victim.

naruvimama 5y ago

"Western values" isn't all that great. It is primarily focused on attacking the "other" or "non-believers" Feminism - attack men Communism - attack the rich Wokeism - attack non-believers "liberalism" - attack non-believers Atheism - attack believers It all comes from Christianity - attack non-believers (esp. idolators) The western frameworks are all built on this same framework, every new movement that comes out of it is bound to create more conflicts. The western world is thankfully Indianising with yoga and vegetarianism, hopefully the future is Dharmic.

radiator 5y ago
Feminism does not attack men, it attacks families.
zozbot234 5y ago
It comes from Christianity for sure but a Western youth culture interpretation of it, heavily influenced by foreign actors from the USSR (see the Mitrokhin papers proving their psyop influence campaigns on Western academia) and Maoist China (via the Gang of Four campaign to "Destroy the Four Olds" of China's traditional heritage, which was hugely influential in Western youth culture). The West used to be acknowledged as a promoter of freedom before the 1960s and 1970s. We should expect that "dharmic" traditions will be twisted in a similar way by future radical movements, such as the "Pure Land" buddhist movement of Japan.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  > a promoter of freedom before the 1960s and 1970s That would be ironic considering that they had not completely freed many of their colonies yet.
  - cptsmrk 5y ago
    Sure, we've often failed to live up to our values. One of the baddest-ass diplomatic moments in modern history was in the 50s when India's UN ambassador read the US Declaration of Independence in protest of its support for colonial regimes in the name of anti-Communism. But the hypocrisy of the west in applying those values doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile or worth fighting for.
    - naruvimama 5y ago
      Which is precisely the argument. Exporting and enforcing values that you do not yourself follow. Do as I say not what I do.
      - Goety 5y ago
        The west is about to write the book on how to deal with the deterioration of democratic values.
random314 5y ago
This post is an example of the wild fantasies indulged by the followers of hindutva where India is forever on the precipice of taking over the world intellectually and to an extent territorially. In this future liberalism will be consigned to the garbage can and ethno nationalism and fascism centered on Hinduism will reign supreme. The popularity of yoga is hilariously touted as a precursor of things to come. The prime minister has created an "international" yoga day. They assume this will be followed by international adoption of ayurveda, cow "science", cow worship, renaming of several mathematical and scientific discoveries after Indian gurus who supposedly discovered everything originally in the veda. The don't seem to be aware that modern yoga practised in the west is a modern invention by an Indian fitness instructor who was attempting to capture a portion of the American fitness market jumpstarted by eugen sandow. Most of the so called asanas have been incorporated into yoga from modern gymnastics.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > ethno nationalism and fascism centered on Hinduism will reign supreme. Hey, if nationalism and fascism (ethnic or otherwise) are going to reign supreme anyway in this "Brave New World" of Fake News Media and Fake Social Media, I'll gladly root for the Hindu version over others. I'd rather worship actual cows than the newfangled "sacred cows" that are being pushed by some parts of the West.
  - cptsmrk 5y ago
    It's like you erected two straw men and are trying to convince us one of them is bronze.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  This was in response to the OP about western values. Are you not sick and tired of a colonial propaganda of attributing everything to the west. I pity people who actually believe Renaissance or Industrial revolution was something that happened overnight. Even as the "liberal" elite and evangelists try to force their agenda on the rest of the world, their own homesteads are turning more dharmic.
hnedeotes 5y ago
Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, and the Indian government has gone to huge lengths to help former pariahs/untouchables (now properly called Dalit) improve their education and social status. To the point where the formerly privileged non-Dalit are now complaining that they don't get anywhere like the same attention from government and are at risk of being left by the wayside. These complaints might be overblown for sure, but the underlying efforts to redress these wrongs cannot be denied.
  - hnedeotes 5y ago
    This was not to say that those things were left unattended or no effort has been made, it was in the context of the parent comment - dharmic definitions, and ideas, are fallible as everything else and can be corrupted and lead to the same or worse outcomes and they can mingle good ideas (Vegetarianism) with bad ideas (Casts).
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      Untouchability was never a dharmic definition or idea. The Vedic texts talk about there being four proper "callings" in life but make no mention of any social outcaste status, and the elaborate system of caste was a result of unrelated developments, similar to the ones which created the rigid social systems of the West in the Middle-Ages.
  - dominotw 5y ago
    > Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, How many municipal workers cleaning streets and toilets are from higher castes ?
- 5y ago
orwin 5y ago
Did you see any atheist kill someone because he was religious? Or even attack some believer for the sake of attacking? This is way to much strawman for me . And I did believe what you said in another post on Modi as governor, now i guess I'll have to check myself.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  There were in fact many such incidents of persecution and even outright massacres, including in post-revolutionary France, early-20th-century Mexico, and still later in North Korea, Albania and Khmer-Rouge Cambodia. Contrary to common misconceptions, atheism is not inherently more rational or freedom-oriented than any other religious stances.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  Attack does not mean physically. The only identity of a western atheist is that they are against believers.
- random314 5y ago
  From his comment history, search for Pakistan. It's a flagged post. He is openly racist and hates Muslims. "Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence," This is why he votes for modi. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama Development of gujarat under modi is a fig leaf for the underlying reason for voting for modi. The motivations are right wing religious ethno fascism. The others in this case are muslims, with Christians and Sikhs being discriminated on a more opportunistic basis. Their vote for modi is in the hopes of building a hindu religious ethno state along Nazi principles with the muslims playing the role of German Jews. This idea is being heavily propagandize through social media, primarily WhatsApps encrypted channels. The religious frenzy being built up in the country is absolutely unreal. Well educated software engineers have also been completely absorbed into this fold, as you can observe from the comments.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    > He is openly racist and hates Muslims Indian Muslims are the same race as Hindus. I distrust Islam just like the vast majority of the world. Muslims are victims of Islam, especially Indian Muslims because it was never their choice. There isn't a single muslim country to the west of India that has any minority rights. An overwhelming 87% of Indian Muslim voted for the Muslim league and hence the creation of Pakistan. That is political Islam and it has killed millions of Hindus in the past 70 years. One big problem with Muslims is that they always think of themselves as victims but seem to have no remorse for the millions of kafirs they have killed. I do not want India to turn into a Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. > Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence That was in response to your mention of Gujarat. The whole incident started when Muslim mobs burnt alive 59 Hindu pilgrims including children. Clearly they had planned for violence and were sufficiently armed. This has always been the case with Muslims around the world. Start the violence and cry victim.