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This thread is full of people talking about cultural, societal, and economic factors that may influence this outcome. I've yet to see anyone mention the factor
by tristor 5y ago
This thread is full of people talking about cultural, societal, and economic factors that may influence this outcome. I've yet to see anyone mention the factor that I wish we more thoroughly investigated: health.
This has been discussed in some articles at length, but we still haven't identified primary causes, but testosterone levels are falling in men (at a given age) at a pretty steady pace year over year. This is likely associated to the prevalence of endocrine disrupting chemicals in our food and water supply, such as BPA in plastics and PCBs in common food-oriented coatings (Teflon). Adding on to that, there are also phytoestrogens from soy lecithin in many food products, and we also had periods where growth hormones were commonplace in dairy products. There is a growing body of evidence, not yet fully interconnected causally, that seems to indicate that the introduction of these sorts of hormones and endocrine disruptors into our food and water supply has had marked effects on health, everything from the increasing epidemic of obesity and obesity-related illnesses like diabetes, to earlier ages of menarche in young girls, and increasing prevalence of gynecomastia in young boys.
I, for various reasons, know numerous people who fall soundly into the NEET stereotype here in the US, still living at home (or in extreme poverty) playing video games and doing menial labor well into their 40s, despite having marketable and useful skillsets that would provide them gainful employment. Without exception, every person I know like this suffers from mental health issues, predominantly anxiety, all are obese, and all consume and have consumed throughout their life heavy amounts of processed food and take-out fast-food, which both increase exposure to chemicals like Teflon (often used to line take-out containers). Their generally unhealthy diet and lifestyle throughout childhood and into adulthood is likely a key factor in the outcome of their life, clearly affects their general health as adults, and is likely a contributor to their mental health issues and defeatist attitudes.
The absence of any serious public health movement to improve the food and water supply of all Americans makes it unsurprising to me that we now find ourselves in the position we are in. Compounding this with the absence of universal mental healthcare and the comorbidity between depression, anxiety, and obesity, makes it unsurprising as well.
- mywittyname 5y agoCould be. But lack of exercise would also lead to low T, and I'm quite confident that middle aged man without a job who lives with parents aren't exactly staying fit.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tomjakubowski 5y ago> lack of exercise would also lead to low T would it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_and_androgen_levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_and_androgen_levels > In cross-sectional analyses, aerobic exercisers have lower basal total and free testosterone compared to the sedentary. Anaerobic exercisers also have lower testosterone compared to the sedentary but a slight increase in basal testosterone with resistance training over time. Anecdatum: during a years long period where I was not exercising at all, I had some blood tests done and total testosterone came out healthy and high.
- tristor 5y agoI think there's still a lot of research to be done in this area, but most of what I've read shows that exercise has minimal impact on this (and on obesity) and for both, diet is a far larger contributing factor. That said, it's not even conclusive that diet has been the cause of lower T levels over the years. That's part of why it's so disturbing... we have this huge change in a core part of the biological basis of masculinity at the same time as we're seeing social shifts that seem affected by it (both positive and negative) and minimal research funding seems directed at these questions (although there's been enough research over the years that the preponderance of evidence really strongly points to plastics critically messing with our hormone balances as humans).
- nradov 5y agoPhthalate chemicals used as plastic softeners are also suspected to reduce testosterone levels.
- yaitsyaboi 5y agoThe article actually addresses this in the final sentence: “Nearly half of prime age men who are not in the labor force take pain medication on any given day; and in nearly two-thirds of these cases, they take prescription pain medication.” I think more prominent than the soybeans/BPA/microplastics kind of causes is just plain old opioid dependence.
- seattle_spring 5y ago... or they suffer from chronic pain, something that is dismissed as "drug seeking" far too often nowadays.
- fb13 5y agoAs a healthy person who hasn't had a painkiller in ten years, I don't understand this at all.
- travisjungroth 5y agoThe next generations are going to look at us like the Romans drinking from lead pipes. I think it's the weirdest time, chemically, when it comes to life on earth. For anyone struggling with their health, check if hormone tests could fit in your budget. It may point to a problem or hint to look in a different direction.
- Ancalagon 5y agoIt’s funny cause lead pipes are still in use everywhere
- travisjungroth 5y agoIn that way we're very much like the Romans drinking from lead pipes. What, with the drinking from lead pipes and all.
- atlgator 5y agoRelevant link https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/19/sperm-counts-are-falling-precipitously-across-the-rich-world https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/19/sperm-co...
- alert0 5y ago75% of the US is overweight. Losing weight can increase testosterone levels. [1] 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25982085/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25982085/
- fb13 5y agoWow, this needs to be brought up more often.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago> despite having marketable and useful skillsets that would provide them gainful employment. Without exception, every person I know like this suffers from mental health issues, predominantly anxiety Alternate hypothesis to low T: it’s the rituals of job interviews that keep them unemployable. As you said, these guys have skills to do the work: the problem is in connecting these men to the jobs in the first place.
- qxga 5y agoThis is it. This is the answer. It's shameful that nobody else here gets it. Many of these people are autistic and/or ADHD. Autism, ADHD, and job interviews do not mix. The prejudice against these groups that's baked into the process (for no real gain) is unbelievable.
- lifeformed 5y agoI don't understand the soy argument. Do Asians have increased rates of hormone problems since they eat so much soy?
- fb13 5y agoProblems may not exist, or be less obvious at least, if their bodies adapted to eating soy over generations. Even differences in gut biome can explain this.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ksrm 5y agoThere are no PCBs in PTFE/Teflon, what are you talking about? Also the soy thing is nonsense.
- tristor 5y agoYou’re correct that there are no PCBs in Teflon. I was using the term for brevity, but I’m really referring to as a class all of the Persistent Organic Pollutants or “forever chemicals”, several of which are specifically used in the production of Teflon, primarily PFOA and PFOS. Which also aren’t technically /in/ Teflon, but are used during manufacturing and can be released under some conditions afterwards.