6 ms·

Would that extend to grocery stores, where would you force walmart to put their own brands?

donmcronald 5y ago
> Would that extend to grocery stores, where would you force walmart to put their own brands? It's not a fair comparison if you're at a physical store since things are too different for an analogy. However, if I'm searching on their website and type in a specific brand so I can find which aisle it's in I would expect to get the brand I searched for, not a Great Value knockoff.
- Spivak 5y ago
  I mean that is basically how I find the store brand all the time. Look for the brand name thing I know by heart because the logo has been seared into my brain since birth and then go from there.
mikestew 5y ago
You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps?
- imNotTheProb 5y ago
  Web Apps? Apple users are used to lower quality products, making them visit a website should be no big deal.
- gruez 5y ago
  >You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? google? >How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps? By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products.
  - passivate 5y ago
    We need to re-evaluate what "rights" mean in a digital age. Apple should not have a monopoly on digital stores on iOS. "Apple made it so they can do anything they want. Take it or leave it" - is not an acceptable position (in my opinion). >By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and what 'that logic' is?
    - gruez 5y ago
      >Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and what 'that logic' is? Because the parent poster was applying arbitrary restriction on it (apps, but only ios) to make a point. I replied with the equivalent example for costco (grocery store products, but only kirkland signature).
      - ksec 5y ago
        Because you have both Costco AND Walmart Stores selling their own brand within the same state which allows heavy Store competition within the State along with dozen of others Stores? The iOS state has 65% of users and 75% of App spending and it has one Store. You can perfectly have your own retail brand when there are plenty of competition within the market. If you argue there is still another state with diverse choices, you are either hit with a Duopoly argument, or a monopolistic power argument where iOS have too much power within market economy. People have been using these over simplify analogy with Xbox and Retail and there are not even the same. Either way, there should be no denying there is something wrong with the way things are currently being handled.
        ElFitz 5y ago
        > The iOS state has 65% of users 65% may be the shares in devices sold in Q4 2020, in the US. From what I’ve gathered, actual devices market share, in the US, is closer to (and less than) 50%. Doesn’t invalidate your points though.
- AlphaSite 5y ago
  The Web is a great competitor for the most part.
passivate 5y ago
A grocery store has limited storage space, a limited amount of advertising space, limited staff, etc, etc. The amount of upkeep is also very different compared to a digital store. I think its not really an apt point for comparison.
crazygringo 5y ago
I don't see any uneven playing field when it comes to grocery stores. The national brands and store brands are always next to each other on the same shelf. So there isn't any problem that needs solving. Also brands already pay for promotional positioning (like the ends of aisles), and when the store puts its own brands in those spots it loses out on those payments, and so is effectively paying equally. So the field doesn't need any evening out there. If grocery stores ever started putting the name-brand stuff in a back room that took twice as long to get to, then it might become an issue, but as of right now it's just not.
- singlow 5y ago
  The brand names pay for their spot, so its moot. There is no meritocracy in grocery store product placement. For the most part the grocery store doesn't have a formula to decide where to put most things based on sales data. If you sell a cereal or soda or fancy mustard and you want premium shelf height, just pay extra for it. The store basically rents the shelf space out.
  - MiscIdeaMaker99 5y ago
    This is absolutely true in the USA. Frito Lay has done this for years, paying supermarkets for more and more shelf space, while the smaller, regional competitors were left with less and less room to sell. This happened to my father in the 1980s when he owned a distributorship for a regional potato chip company here in the Midwest United States.
- bombcar 5y ago
  You don’t see the brands they don’t carry at all. Only the brands they carry get displayed and they often make more money on the name brands anyway.
  - hnick 5y ago
    I've heard from a friend (in Australia) if you don't frequently buy placement you get bumped, and buying placement can be a losing proposition. They raise the price to squeeze all margin so it's just on the edge of making it affordable. You have to say yes to losing money during the promotion ("you'll make it up with brand awareness!") to claw it back by staying on the shelves in between. Otherwise another brand, or sometimes a house brand, takes your place.
heavyset_go 5y ago
I can go across the street to a dozen different stores. If I travel a little further, I can go to even more stores. No matter where I go, with Apple and Google, I'm have to use their payment systems and give each of them a 30% cut of my apps' revenue. They both have a duopoly in the mobile operating systems market and the mobile app distribution market, and Apple has the majority of the market share in both markets in the US.
- judge2020 5y ago
  The difference is that Walmart didn't build the street or the city and doesn't have a right to take a cut of sales on other people's property. A more apt comparison would be the third-party hotels that, if they want to use some of Disney's 25,000 acres in Florida[0], literally have to lease the land from Disney and Disney can impose terms like a cut of sales (or a forced Disney merchandise store within the hotel). iOS is like the consumer choosing to live exclusively within the confines of Disney's property (with the difference being that, once you 'leave' iOS, you can't bring stuff back into the city - honestly this is the digital equivalent of what Walt Disney wanted with E.P.C.O.T.[1]). 0: https://dpep.disney.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/fact_sheet_walt_disney_world_resort_2020_Q4.pdf#page=7 https://dpep.disney.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/fact_sheet... 1: https://youtu.be/tKYEXjMlKKQ https://youtu.be/tKYEXjMlKKQ
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    You actually OWN your device and should have the right to do what you please with it. This analogy is poor.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    There are tons of resorts and hotels completely unrelated to Disney that exist right at the gates of Disnyworld that offer shuttles. There are even more resorts in Kissimmee that are just a short drive away. As someone who has been to Disneyworld over a dozen times and never once stayed in a Disney resort, there are a ton of places to stay and still visit Disneyworld.
    - 5y ago
vel0city 5y ago
It costs me less money travel-wise to go to a non-Walmart grocery store. Within the same cost comparison of traveling, I've got about four different brands of groceries all within a similar price range. If I had an iPhone, it would be a several hundred dollar proposal (at least!) to shop at a competing store.

> Would that extend to grocery stores, where would you force walmart to put their own brands? It's not a fair comparison if you're at a physical store since things are too different for an analogy. However, if I'm searching on their website and type in a specific brand so I can find which aisle it's in I would expect to get the brand I searched for, not a Great Value knockoff.

Spivak 5y ago
I mean that is basically how I find the store brand all the time. Look for the brand name thing I know by heart because the logo has been seared into my brain since birth and then go from there.

mikestew 5y ago

You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps?

imNotTheProb 5y ago
Web Apps? Apple users are used to lower quality products, making them visit a website should be no big deal.
gruez 5y ago
>You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? google? >How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps? By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products.
- passivate 5y ago
  We need to re-evaluate what "rights" mean in a digital age. Apple should not have a monopoly on digital stores on iOS. "Apple made it so they can do anything they want. Take it or leave it" - is not an acceptable position (in my opinion). >By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and what 'that logic' is?
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and what 'that logic' is? Because the parent poster was applying arbitrary restriction on it (apps, but only ios) to make a point. I replied with the equivalent example for costco (grocery store products, but only kirkland signature).
    - ksec 5y ago
      Because you have both Costco AND Walmart Stores selling their own brand within the same state which allows heavy Store competition within the State along with dozen of others Stores? The iOS state has 65% of users and 75% of App spending and it has one Store. You can perfectly have your own retail brand when there are plenty of competition within the market. If you argue there is still another state with diverse choices, you are either hit with a Duopoly argument, or a monopolistic power argument where iOS have too much power within market economy. People have been using these over simplify analogy with Xbox and Retail and there are not even the same. Either way, there should be no denying there is something wrong with the way things are currently being handled.
      - ElFitz 5y ago
        > The iOS state has 65% of users 65% may be the shares in devices sold in Q4 2020, in the US. From what I’ve gathered, actual devices market share, in the US, is closer to (and less than) 50%. Doesn’t invalidate your points though.
AlphaSite 5y ago
The Web is a great competitor for the most part.

passivate 5y ago

A grocery store has limited storage space, a limited amount of advertising space, limited staff, etc, etc. The amount of upkeep is also very different compared to a digital store. I think its not really an apt point for comparison.

crazygringo 5y ago

I don't see any uneven playing field when it comes to grocery stores. The national brands and store brands are always next to each other on the same shelf. So there isn't any problem that needs solving. Also brands already pay for promotional positioning (like the ends of aisles), and when the store puts its own brands in those spots it loses out on those payments, and so is effectively paying equally. So the field doesn't need any evening out there. If grocery stores ever started putting the name-brand stuff in a back room that took twice as long to get to, then it might become an issue, but as of right now it's just not.

singlow 5y ago
The brand names pay for their spot, so its moot. There is no meritocracy in grocery store product placement. For the most part the grocery store doesn't have a formula to decide where to put most things based on sales data. If you sell a cereal or soda or fancy mustard and you want premium shelf height, just pay extra for it. The store basically rents the shelf space out.
- MiscIdeaMaker99 5y ago
  This is absolutely true in the USA. Frito Lay has done this for years, paying supermarkets for more and more shelf space, while the smaller, regional competitors were left with less and less room to sell. This happened to my father in the 1980s when he owned a distributorship for a regional potato chip company here in the Midwest United States.
bombcar 5y ago
You don’t see the brands they don’t carry at all. Only the brands they carry get displayed and they often make more money on the name brands anyway.
- hnick 5y ago
  I've heard from a friend (in Australia) if you don't frequently buy placement you get bumped, and buying placement can be a losing proposition. They raise the price to squeeze all margin so it's just on the edge of making it affordable. You have to say yes to losing money during the promotion ("you'll make it up with brand awareness!") to claw it back by staying on the shelves in between. Otherwise another brand, or sometimes a house brand, takes your place.

heavyset_go 5y ago

I can go across the street to a dozen different stores. If I travel a little further, I can go to even more stores. No matter where I go, with Apple and Google, I'm have to use their payment systems and give each of them a 30% cut of my apps' revenue. They both have a duopoly in the mobile operating systems market and the mobile app distribution market, and Apple has the majority of the market share in both markets in the US.

judge2020 5y ago
The difference is that Walmart didn't build the street or the city and doesn't have a right to take a cut of sales on other people's property. A more apt comparison would be the third-party hotels that, if they want to use some of Disney's 25,000 acres in Florida[0], literally have to lease the land from Disney and Disney can impose terms like a cut of sales (or a forced Disney merchandise store within the hotel). iOS is like the consumer choosing to live exclusively within the confines of Disney's property (with the difference being that, once you 'leave' iOS, you can't bring stuff back into the city - honestly this is the digital equivalent of what Walt Disney wanted with E.P.C.O.T.[1]). 0: https://dpep.disney.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/fact_sheet_walt_disney_world_resort_2020_Q4.pdf#page=7 https://dpep.disney.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/fact_sheet... 1: https://youtu.be/tKYEXjMlKKQ https://youtu.be/tKYEXjMlKKQ
- shkkmo 5y ago
  You actually OWN your device and should have the right to do what you please with it. This analogy is poor.
- vel0city 5y ago
  There are tons of resorts and hotels completely unrelated to Disney that exist right at the gates of Disnyworld that offer shuttles. There are even more resorts in Kissimmee that are just a short drive away. As someone who has been to Disneyworld over a dozen times and never once stayed in a Disney resort, there are a ton of places to stay and still visit Disneyworld.
  - 5y ago

vel0city 5y ago

It costs me less money travel-wise to go to a non-Walmart grocery store. Within the same cost comparison of traveling, I've got about four different brands of groceries all within a similar price range. If I had an iPhone, it would be a several hundred dollar proposal (at least!) to shop at a competing store.