4 ms·

London's entire existence depends on letting large global corporations, oligarchs and criminals hide their money. If they stopped doing that the city and the co

London's entire existence depends on letting large global corporations, oligarchs and criminals hide their money. If they stopped doing that the city and the country would spiral.

smcl 5y ago
I'm no fan of London but saying its entire existence depends on that is a bit of a stretch. That's like saying Ireland's entire reason for existing hinges on its low (zero?) corporation tax. Both are important and I'm sure they'd both suffer if they lost their respective tax advantages, but a death spiral? Maybe not.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  It's not zero: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/top-10-companies-now-pay-more-than-half-of-corporate-tax-1.4553695 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/top-10-companies... To be fair though, the old approach was only to pay tax on irish revenue, which was almost zero, given how small Ireland is.
- drcongo 5y ago
  It's worth watching the documentary Offshore Incorporated (also known as The UK Gold for some reason). It's very broad brushstrokes, but still true. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3057428/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3057428/
  - smcl 5y ago
    But ... it's entire existence? Like without the Oligarchs etc parking their money there it would wither away and cease to exist? I mean I am all for London having a diminished status within the UK, but that's taking a widely accepted fact (that a lot of laundered money goes through London) and blowing it way out of proportion.
hogFeast 5y ago
No, it doesn't. The UK is the number one loser globally from corporate tax avoidance (the reason why we have a 15% rate is because the UK functionally stopped being able to collect corp tax because of the big EU tax havens agreeing deals with large companies). The reason why the UK doesn't like these proposals is because they are a fairly transparent attempt to get companies paying more US tax, regardless of the consequences for anyone else (and the proposals have been skilfully tailored to produce the most agreement from France and Germany whilst promising the least possible change). As for "oligarchs and criminals"...those are two different things. The UK already applies extraterritoriality to money coming into the UK (i.e. if you bring money into the UK that is the proceeds of crime in another country that money will get taken, even if you haven't been charged in your own country). But most people view oligarchs as criminals, they are not. Running a business is not a crime, and we shouldn't make into a crime because that person happens to be the wrong nationality (btw, what most people don't understand is that the UK was a haven for oligarchs who were anti-Putin, not pro...the reason why they came here is because they had to leave Russia because of Putin).
- thefounder 5y ago
  >> The UK already applies extraterritoriality to money coming into the UK (i.e. if you bring money into the UK that is the proceeds of crime in another country that money will get taken, even if you haven't been charged in your own country). Still... the UK is often cited as “the money laundering capital of the world,” with an estimated minimum £90bn laundered through the City of London every year (based on NCA figures alone). London loves money laundering b/c there is money to be made. >> The report said “the arrival of Russian money has resulted in a growth industry of enablers – [British] lawyers, accountants and estate agents have all played a role”. >> “disturbing” prevalence of Russian money laundering in London, claiming up to half of all money laundered from the country is done through the UK. https://www.cityam.com/top-official-warns-of-disturbing-amount-of-russian-money-laundering-in-uk/ https://www.cityam.com/top-official-warns-of-disturbing-amou...
  - hogFeast 5y ago
    £90bn in a financial system that moves trillions daily. The UK isn't the money laundering capital of the world...you have just quoted yourself...it is an extremely bad idea to launder money through the UK's financial system (unless you live somewhere that doesn't comply with CRS...in which case it doesn't matter). And what is the accusation here...as I said previously, everyone equates Russia with money laundering because...you know, all Russians are evil but it is not easy to connect directly with crimes (and yes, UK police have this stereotype too, they are clueless). Btw, if you read your link carefully, you would have realised that these companies don't use the UK's financial system to launder money (again, bad idea...even when Russia isn't going to comply with CRS notices). What happened is that some people use SLPs to transfer money through UK corporate structures (but not the UK's financial system) before going somewhere else. This has basically stopped because the structure of SLPs was changed (and btw, very few people made money from this, it cost £20 to set up an SLP).
cturner 5y ago
London thrives because it's a world city with a massive talent pool. The standard of financial regulation is as high as anywhere else in the world, and the regulators hold a firm position against money-laundering.

London's entire existence depends on letting large global corporations, oligarchs and criminals hide their money. If they stopped doing that the city and the country would spiral.

smcl 5y ago

I'm no fan of London but saying its entire existence depends on that is a bit of a stretch. That's like saying Ireland's entire reason for existing hinges on its low (zero?) corporation tax. Both are important and I'm sure they'd both suffer if they lost their respective tax advantages, but a death spiral? Maybe not.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
It's not zero: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/top-10-companies-now-pay-more-than-half-of-corporate-tax-1.4553695 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/top-10-companies... To be fair though, the old approach was only to pay tax on irish revenue, which was almost zero, given how small Ireland is.
drcongo 5y ago
It's worth watching the documentary Offshore Incorporated (also known as The UK Gold for some reason). It's very broad brushstrokes, but still true. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3057428/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3057428/
- smcl 5y ago
  But ... it's entire existence? Like without the Oligarchs etc parking their money there it would wither away and cease to exist? I mean I am all for London having a diminished status within the UK, but that's taking a widely accepted fact (that a lot of laundered money goes through London) and blowing it way out of proportion.

hogFeast 5y ago

No, it doesn't. The UK is the number one loser globally from corporate tax avoidance (the reason why we have a 15% rate is because the UK functionally stopped being able to collect corp tax because of the big EU tax havens agreeing deals with large companies). The reason why the UK doesn't like these proposals is because they are a fairly transparent attempt to get companies paying more US tax, regardless of the consequences for anyone else (and the proposals have been skilfully tailored to produce the most agreement from France and Germany whilst promising the least possible change). As for "oligarchs and criminals"...those are two different things. The UK already applies extraterritoriality to money coming into the UK (i.e. if you bring money into the UK that is the proceeds of crime in another country that money will get taken, even if you haven't been charged in your own country). But most people view oligarchs as criminals, they are not. Running a business is not a crime, and we shouldn't make into a crime because that person happens to be the wrong nationality (btw, what most people don't understand is that the UK was a haven for oligarchs who were anti-Putin, not pro...the reason why they came here is because they had to leave Russia because of Putin).

thefounder 5y ago
>> The UK already applies extraterritoriality to money coming into the UK (i.e. if you bring money into the UK that is the proceeds of crime in another country that money will get taken, even if you haven't been charged in your own country). Still... the UK is often cited as “the money laundering capital of the world,” with an estimated minimum £90bn laundered through the City of London every year (based on NCA figures alone). London loves money laundering b/c there is money to be made. >> The report said “the arrival of Russian money has resulted in a growth industry of enablers – [British] lawyers, accountants and estate agents have all played a role”. >> “disturbing” prevalence of Russian money laundering in London, claiming up to half of all money laundered from the country is done through the UK. https://www.cityam.com/top-official-warns-of-disturbing-amount-of-russian-money-laundering-in-uk/ https://www.cityam.com/top-official-warns-of-disturbing-amou...
- hogFeast 5y ago
  £90bn in a financial system that moves trillions daily. The UK isn't the money laundering capital of the world...you have just quoted yourself...it is an extremely bad idea to launder money through the UK's financial system (unless you live somewhere that doesn't comply with CRS...in which case it doesn't matter). And what is the accusation here...as I said previously, everyone equates Russia with money laundering because...you know, all Russians are evil but it is not easy to connect directly with crimes (and yes, UK police have this stereotype too, they are clueless). Btw, if you read your link carefully, you would have realised that these companies don't use the UK's financial system to launder money (again, bad idea...even when Russia isn't going to comply with CRS notices). What happened is that some people use SLPs to transfer money through UK corporate structures (but not the UK's financial system) before going somewhere else. This has basically stopped because the structure of SLPs was changed (and btw, very few people made money from this, it cost £20 to set up an SLP).

cturner 5y ago

London thrives because it's a world city with a massive talent pool. The standard of financial regulation is as high as anywhere else in the world, and the regulators hold a firm position against money-laundering.