9 ms·

How to think clearly

282 points by prostoalex 5y ago

drooby 5y ago
Relevant video I stumbled across this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2P5vW-nVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2P5vW-nVc
gweinberg 5y ago
"Question: how can archaeologists translate ancient scriptures or languages? Answer: ‘It’s basically a giant jigsaw puzzle.’ " Does the author actually think this is a good answer? I don't see how it tells you anything at all.
- haswell 5y ago
  The author is using a variety of examples from ELI5, and goes on to clarify that the answers there are imperfect, debated, discussed, etc. Why would you conclude that the author thinks this is a good answer vs. just an answer to help the reader understand the subreddit? With that said, it does tell you something if you’re open to it. To me, it says: “there are a lot of pieces (often literally), and an archaeologist has to put those pieces together”. Is it an oversimplification? Of course. But remember the age the answer is supposed to target.
  - gweinberg 5y ago
    I literally think it conveys no information at all. It's a metaphor, and a metaphor that the hearer won't understand unless he already knows the answer to his question. He could just as informatively have said "it's complicated".
    - ludwigschubert 5y ago
      Ah, I think I may see the missed connection! It's like a jigsaw puzzle because archaeologists really do assemble fragments of old scripts. Sometimes the translation efforts can only give you probabilistic answers that in turn influence where you're likely to place a fragment. A family member of mine works in the space academically, and they really have giant catalogues with pictures of fragments, and they experiment with different arrangements and what they would mean to their translation efforts. Unfortunately I don't have a link. :/ EDIT: a random CS paper that talks about automated solutions to the pure assembly part of this (without the text translation): https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.10553 https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.10553
    - haswell 5y ago
      “It’s complicated” tells me absolutely nothing about the nature of the complication. “It’s like a puzzle” at least tells me there are a bunch of pieces to assemble, and gives me some insight and a basic mental model to start with.
- mkl 5y ago
  That's not the explanation, it's just the first sentence (as an example of the tone, I presume): > It's basically a giant jigsaw puzzle. > You find some rock that has the same text in two languages (the rosetta stone for example helped decipher old egyptian) > Then you read more and more texts and reconstruct new words from context. Often you have multiple possible interpretations but then new texts are found and you can improve your old assumptions with a new context. https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/myt3dc/eli5_how_can_archaeologists_translate_ancient/gvwrmlv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/myt3dc/e...
wyager 5y ago
It’s hard to take seriously an article that purports to teach about moral decision-making and doesn’t reference any kind of utility theory. The kind of black-and-white thinking espoused in the veganism example is one of the reasons most people are so bad at thinking clearly. Among other downsides, it makes you extremely vulnerable to manipulative platitudes.
- GavinMcG 5y ago
  > purports to teach about moral decision-making Where? The author's stated purpose is "I want to help people work out what they really think and mean." Decision-making isn't on the table. > The kind of black-and-white thinking espoused Again, where? The example isn't espousing black-and-white thinking, or anything about veganism. It's an example and it's exemplifying actively looking for further underlying reasons and further implications.
  - yetanotherjosh 5y ago
    > Decision-making isn't on the table If one of the main examples is a decision making process, I don't think it's fair to say decision making isn't on the table. You might say it's about evaluating claims, not a decisions per se, and the example happens to be a decision that is also a claim ("I should (not) be vegan, because..."), but this is still decision making.
    - GavinMcG 5y ago
      I can't tell whether you're just nitpicking my choice of words, or whether you're actually arguing that the article is "about moral decision-making" and should therefore reference utility theory, which is the substance I was responding to.
  - wyager 5y ago
    > Decision-making isn't on the table. Like half the content of the article is an example of someone making a decision about being vegan. The author’s stated topic is less relevant than what he actually chooses to cover. > The example isn't espousing black-and-white thinking, or anything about veganism. It's an example Did you read the article? I don’t understand how you can say this. I’m also not sure why you’re so interested in the fact that it’s an example. That happens to be the prosaic style of the article - that doesn’t exempt it from judgement.
DenverCode 5y ago
>Sometimes, when I’m grappling with a tricky topic, I pretend that I need to explain it to a child. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
- amelius 5y ago
  Even better is explaining it to a computer.
  - thisistheend123 5y ago
    Thanks for saying that. It is an underrated practice I think. Could you elaborate a bit more on this.
    - underwater 5y ago
      It's a joke. Explaining it to a computer means expressing it in code. (Not sure if I'm the one who got whooshed here)
      - ganzuul 5y ago
        You got wooshed yeah.
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        Someone should create a service where people can collaborate in explaining things to computers, and comment, ask questions, or criticise each other's explanations....
    - FractalHQ 5y ago
      In case your curiosity is genuine- I think gp is referring to the common idea that computers are notoriously “dumb” and require meticulously explicit instructions for every step of a given task in order for them to reliably accomplish said task.
armchairhacker 5y ago
IMO the best way to think "clearly" is to be patient. I find that when I try to figure out the best way to do something, just waiting on it I come up with a better way or at least get more confident. Even when I didn't consciously think anymore about it, and especially after I sleep.
- zyemuzu 5y ago
  Finding solutions in your sleep is so incredibly satisfying when it happens.
  - Meandering 5y ago
    This may be partially caused by cortisol levels where cortisol levels are lower before, during, and after the sleep process.
    - jstanley 5y ago
      So, all of the time?
      - axiosgunnar 5y ago
        I think the poster meant RIGHT before/after.
  - papito 5y ago
    Many times when I am marinating on a problem, I come up with the most simple and obvious solution in 90 seconds after I open my eyes in the morning. I attribute it to the monkey brain not drowning your thoughts in crap, but then the tsunami comes in and you lost your chance. It's truly amazing what an uncluttered brain can do. I began seeing value in "practical" meditation. That is, focusing on something mundane like doing dishes, to distract the brain from those other things. Sometimes it's all the busy us can afford. Not everyone has Jerry Seinfeld money to meditate in peace for one hour each day (he does).
______- 5y ago
I've taken a liking to mulling over large pieces of content instead of paying attention to quick little soundbites that you find on social media. It makes me think clearly. Just taking the time to indulge in reading a lofty tome is a real social media killer. Although: I am prone to distilling the gist of core concepts that took many pages to explain. I probably got that trait from social media. Everything has to be reduced down to a soundbite or clever haiku-like quote.
- rumblerock 5y ago
  Distilling to the core concepts is great if you've captured the most essential takeaways, unless you're looking to put the nitty gritty to work as a main occupation. They just become frameworks for lateral thinking and free association.
- flycaliguy 5y ago
  Distilling many pages is the first step in writing your own response (over many pages). It’s essential and a very healthy impulse.
- faustlast 5y ago
  > distilling the gist of core concepts If you wish to instruct, be brief. -- Cicero
halayli 5y ago
[tangential] That's assuming that basic cognition is in good shape. During the pandemic and after I've noticed (and been told explicitly) about how their cognition took a bit hit in the past year+. I wonder how prevalent this is around the world. Especially that many people haven't had a proper vacation/time off.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  A good way to find out how to think clearly would be to look for some of the rare people who are effective despite serious neurological or mental disorders and find out how they cope. I remember in one of Oliver Sacks' books, he described a surgeon with Tourette's, which involves tics and involuntary outbursts, but somehow he managed to be perfectly steady in the operating room, and he also was a private pilot.
  - seventhtiger 5y ago
    Perhaps tangential, but the 2015 world champion of public speaking Mohammed Qahtani actually has a really severe stutter. I got the chance to work with him, and he stuttered since he was a child, and still does, severely, during normal chat and workshops and so on, but as soon as he's on stage and he's "on" it disappears.
mediamachiner 5y ago
used to have a sticky note on the desk reminding me to disengage from going down a rabbit hole if I've spent more than 20 minutes investigating a particular theory. It's usually a sign I'm attached to the idea more than finding a solution. Going for a short walk turned out to be surprisingly good. Often came back with solutions or new ideas. Another interesting thing that has worked these days is listening to podcasts on adjacent topics - tech but somewhat away from what I use daily and there were a few aha! moments.

282 points by prostoalex 5y ago

Relevant video I stumbled across this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2P5vW-nVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2P5vW-nVc

gweinberg 5y ago

"Question: how can archaeologists translate ancient scriptures or languages? Answer: ‘It’s basically a giant jigsaw puzzle.’ " Does the author actually think this is a good answer? I don't see how it tells you anything at all.

haswell 5y ago
The author is using a variety of examples from ELI5, and goes on to clarify that the answers there are imperfect, debated, discussed, etc. Why would you conclude that the author thinks this is a good answer vs. just an answer to help the reader understand the subreddit? With that said, it does tell you something if you’re open to it. To me, it says: “there are a lot of pieces (often literally), and an archaeologist has to put those pieces together”. Is it an oversimplification? Of course. But remember the age the answer is supposed to target.
- gweinberg 5y ago
  I literally think it conveys no information at all. It's a metaphor, and a metaphor that the hearer won't understand unless he already knows the answer to his question. He could just as informatively have said "it's complicated".
  - ludwigschubert 5y ago
    Ah, I think I may see the missed connection! It's like a jigsaw puzzle because archaeologists really do assemble fragments of old scripts. Sometimes the translation efforts can only give you probabilistic answers that in turn influence where you're likely to place a fragment. A family member of mine works in the space academically, and they really have giant catalogues with pictures of fragments, and they experiment with different arrangements and what they would mean to their translation efforts. Unfortunately I don't have a link. :/ EDIT: a random CS paper that talks about automated solutions to the pure assembly part of this (without the text translation): https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.10553 https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.10553
  - haswell 5y ago
    “It’s complicated” tells me absolutely nothing about the nature of the complication. “It’s like a puzzle” at least tells me there are a bunch of pieces to assemble, and gives me some insight and a basic mental model to start with.
mkl 5y ago
That's not the explanation, it's just the first sentence (as an example of the tone, I presume): > It's basically a giant jigsaw puzzle. > You find some rock that has the same text in two languages (the rosetta stone for example helped decipher old egyptian) > Then you read more and more texts and reconstruct new words from context. Often you have multiple possible interpretations but then new texts are found and you can improve your old assumptions with a new context. https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/myt3dc/eli5_how_can_archaeologists_translate_ancient/gvwrmlv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/myt3dc/e...

wyager 5y ago

It’s hard to take seriously an article that purports to teach about moral decision-making and doesn’t reference any kind of utility theory. The kind of black-and-white thinking espoused in the veganism example is one of the reasons most people are so bad at thinking clearly. Among other downsides, it makes you extremely vulnerable to manipulative platitudes.

GavinMcG 5y ago
> purports to teach about moral decision-making Where? The author's stated purpose is "I want to help people work out what they really think and mean." Decision-making isn't on the table. > The kind of black-and-white thinking espoused Again, where? The example isn't espousing black-and-white thinking, or anything about veganism. It's an example and it's exemplifying actively looking for further underlying reasons and further implications.
- yetanotherjosh 5y ago
  > Decision-making isn't on the table If one of the main examples is a decision making process, I don't think it's fair to say decision making isn't on the table. You might say it's about evaluating claims, not a decisions per se, and the example happens to be a decision that is also a claim ("I should (not) be vegan, because..."), but this is still decision making.
  - GavinMcG 5y ago
    I can't tell whether you're just nitpicking my choice of words, or whether you're actually arguing that the article is "about moral decision-making" and should therefore reference utility theory, which is the substance I was responding to.
- wyager 5y ago
  > Decision-making isn't on the table. Like half the content of the article is an example of someone making a decision about being vegan. The author’s stated topic is less relevant than what he actually chooses to cover. > The example isn't espousing black-and-white thinking, or anything about veganism. It's an example Did you read the article? I don’t understand how you can say this. I’m also not sure why you’re so interested in the fact that it’s an example. That happens to be the prosaic style of the article - that doesn’t exempt it from judgement.

DenverCode 5y ago

>Sometimes, when I’m grappling with a tricky topic, I pretend that I need to explain it to a child. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

amelius 5y ago
Even better is explaining it to a computer.
- thisistheend123 5y ago
  Thanks for saying that. It is an underrated practice I think. Could you elaborate a bit more on this.
  - underwater 5y ago
    It's a joke. Explaining it to a computer means expressing it in code. (Not sure if I'm the one who got whooshed here)
    - ganzuul 5y ago
      You got wooshed yeah.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Someone should create a service where people can collaborate in explaining things to computers, and comment, ask questions, or criticise each other's explanations....
  - FractalHQ 5y ago
    In case your curiosity is genuine- I think gp is referring to the common idea that computers are notoriously “dumb” and require meticulously explicit instructions for every step of a given task in order for them to reliably accomplish said task.

armchairhacker 5y ago

IMO the best way to think "clearly" is to be patient. I find that when I try to figure out the best way to do something, just waiting on it I come up with a better way or at least get more confident. Even when I didn't consciously think anymore about it, and especially after I sleep.

zyemuzu 5y ago
Finding solutions in your sleep is so incredibly satisfying when it happens.
- Meandering 5y ago
  This may be partially caused by cortisol levels where cortisol levels are lower before, during, and after the sleep process.
  - jstanley 5y ago
    So, all of the time?
    - axiosgunnar 5y ago
      I think the poster meant RIGHT before/after.
- papito 5y ago
  Many times when I am marinating on a problem, I come up with the most simple and obvious solution in 90 seconds after I open my eyes in the morning. I attribute it to the monkey brain not drowning your thoughts in crap, but then the tsunami comes in and you lost your chance. It's truly amazing what an uncluttered brain can do. I began seeing value in "practical" meditation. That is, focusing on something mundane like doing dishes, to distract the brain from those other things. Sometimes it's all the busy us can afford. Not everyone has Jerry Seinfeld money to meditate in peace for one hour each day (he does).

______- 5y ago

I've taken a liking to mulling over large pieces of content instead of paying attention to quick little soundbites that you find on social media. It makes me think clearly. Just taking the time to indulge in reading a lofty tome is a real social media killer. Although: I am prone to distilling the gist of core concepts that took many pages to explain. I probably got that trait from social media. Everything has to be reduced down to a soundbite or clever haiku-like quote.

rumblerock 5y ago
Distilling to the core concepts is great if you've captured the most essential takeaways, unless you're looking to put the nitty gritty to work as a main occupation. They just become frameworks for lateral thinking and free association.
flycaliguy 5y ago
Distilling many pages is the first step in writing your own response (over many pages). It’s essential and a very healthy impulse.
faustlast 5y ago
> distilling the gist of core concepts If you wish to instruct, be brief. -- Cicero

halayli 5y ago

[tangential] That's assuming that basic cognition is in good shape. During the pandemic and after I've noticed (and been told explicitly) about how their cognition took a bit hit in the past year+. I wonder how prevalent this is around the world. Especially that many people haven't had a proper vacation/time off.

perl4ever 5y ago
A good way to find out how to think clearly would be to look for some of the rare people who are effective despite serious neurological or mental disorders and find out how they cope. I remember in one of Oliver Sacks' books, he described a surgeon with Tourette's, which involves tics and involuntary outbursts, but somehow he managed to be perfectly steady in the operating room, and he also was a private pilot.
- seventhtiger 5y ago
  Perhaps tangential, but the 2015 world champion of public speaking Mohammed Qahtani actually has a really severe stutter. I got the chance to work with him, and he stuttered since he was a child, and still does, severely, during normal chat and workshops and so on, but as soon as he's on stage and he's "on" it disappears.

mediamachiner 5y ago

used to have a sticky note on the desk reminding me to disengage from going down a rabbit hole if I've spent more than 20 minutes investigating a particular theory. It's usually a sign I'm attached to the idea more than finding a solution. Going for a short walk turned out to be surprisingly good. Often came back with solutions or new ideas. Another interesting thing that has worked these days is listening to podcasts on adjacent topics - tech but somewhat away from what I use daily and there were a few aha! moments.