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Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly

Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly. Sometimes it shows how disconnected Americans are from the local European realities. Even if Tesla will succeed they'll have to fly workers from Ukraine, Branderburg is a demographical desert. Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania are desperate to subcontract for automotive, they'll literally suck every dick and rubberstamp every papper to have it on their soil.

_Microft 5y ago
The issue could be rather that Musk might have mistakenly thought that he could get away with "move fast and flout rules" here in Germany and now he's coming back to Earth with a bang. See how "Musk blames bureaucracy" instead of blaming Tesla for not doing their homework properly the first time? https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/cars/teslas-musk-blames-bureaucracy-for-german-gigafactory-delays/82715202 https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-veh...
- durnygbur 5y ago
  And who was the investor of BER that had to be put back to Earth with a bang?
wait_a_minute 5y ago
Musk should just build the plant in Romania instead. Beautiful country, and we will accept the business and tax revenue with open arms ;)
- _Microft 5y ago
  If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.
  - durnygbur 5y ago
    Just south of this manufactury in Lausitz there are the largest open-pit mines of brown coal in Europe. Somehow this is not a problem, or vast open-pit mines are an asset to the countryside and the environment?
    - _Microft 5y ago
      These are huge problems, not just there but also in western Germany, and they are seeing opposition as well. As far as I am concerned, I would have shut down coal plants and coal mines ages ago (while keeping nuclear power plants running longer instead).
  - wait_a_minute 5y ago
    Ahhh yes, the country where those automotive groups kept the world and their country pristine and pure by… checks notes intentionally lying about emissions in their vehicles that are sold all over the place!
    - _Microft 5y ago
      These manufacturers flouted the rules and were eventually caught as well. If we hadn't had the rules, they could have gone on with that unopposed, so this is basically making my point?
      - wait_a_minute 5y ago
        They got away with it for a long time and at a huge scale and barely got a slap on the wrist. Your point is not proven. If anything it is harmed by this reality because it suggests environmental concerns are not actually that high up on Germany’s priorities and it seems like a concern-troll for them to cite environmental concerns now lol. They’re afraid of American muscle challenging their brands. Anyway, a Gigafactory in Romania would have many awesome loyal workers and it’d be a beautiful facility in a beautiful country. :)
        5y ago
imtringued 5y ago
It actually isn't a threat to their existence if German car makers respond early enough. It's a bigger threat to their existence if there is nobody to wake them up before they die.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  If this means less Audi/BMW/Mercedes cars blinding me with their headlights and tailing 2m behind me, let them sleep.
  - Lio 5y ago
    You do realise that that is driver behaviour don't you? The arseholes that do that in Audi/BMW/Mercedes will just switch to do the same thing in another brand if these companies cease to exist. Still I never appreciated some of Audi's marketing that seemed to encourage this sort of bad behaviour.
    - durnygbur 5y ago
      It's marketing and sales techniques of these premium brands emphasizing on arrogance, vanity, competitivenes, jealousity. At this point I really don't care because I'm starting to have Pavlov reflexes on seeing their front grills and logos. > The arseholes that do that in Audi/BMW/Mercedes will just switch to do the same thing in another brand if these companies cease to exist. If this is such a global phenomenon, maybe there exists a solution?
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
There is no demographical desert, it's well in commute reach of Berlin. Maybe lacks S-Bahn, but they could bring them in by bus, like the FAANGS do/did theirs from SF to Silicon Valley. edit: I just looked it up on Openstreetmap with the traffic overlay, next stop for the S-Bahn is about 5km away, wouldn't even need to bus them in over long distance, just a tiny shuttle service from either 'Erkner', or 'Grünheide, Fangschleuse, Bahnhof' as can be seen here: https://openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=13&lat=52.42458&lon=13.76715&layers=00B0TT https://openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=13&lat=52.42458&lon...
- durnygbur 5y ago
  Dude, these are not FAANG dream jobs. Qualified workers will earn gross 3.5k EUR/month, unqualified 2.7k EUR/month [1]. These salaries barely pay the rent in Berlin. Tesla is already trying to search in western Poland apparently unaware it's a similar wasteland. [1] https://gazetalubuska.pl/tesla-gigafactory-kusi-zarobkami-i-zatrudni-tez-polakow-ale-sa-warunki-kto-moze-starac-sie-o-prace/ar/c3-15441435 https://gazetalubuska.pl/tesla-gigafactory-kusi-zarobkami-i-...
  - vt85 5y ago
    And what is the average salary of a developer in Berlin? Because I happen to know it's about that range. And it does pay the rent, and there isn't much better option. So, dude, this apparently are very good salaries for Berlin.
    - durnygbur 5y ago
      This is a salary in Berlin for an inexperienced bootcamp graduate. For new arrivals the rents in the city have reached at least 1-1.5k EUR per month long time ago.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Dude, maybe someone living on Hartz IV/ALG II in Marzahn, or something similar would enjoy it? Berlin isn't just Kreuzberg/Neukölln/Friedrichshain, you know?

_Microft 5y ago

The issue could be rather that Musk might have mistakenly thought that he could get away with "move fast and flout rules" here in Germany and now he's coming back to Earth with a bang. See how "Musk blames bureaucracy" instead of blaming Tesla for not doing their homework properly the first time? https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/cars/teslas-musk-blames-bureaucracy-for-german-gigafactory-delays/82715202 https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-veh...

durnygbur 5y ago
And who was the investor of BER that had to be put back to Earth with a bang?

wait_a_minute 5y ago

Musk should just build the plant in Romania instead. Beautiful country, and we will accept the business and tax revenue with open arms ;)

_Microft 5y ago
If you want to keep your country beautiful, you might want to consider enforcing some rules so that it stays like that. That's exactly what German groups are trying here. You do not get nice countries by lowering the standards there.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  Just south of this manufactury in Lausitz there are the largest open-pit mines of brown coal in Europe. Somehow this is not a problem, or vast open-pit mines are an asset to the countryside and the environment?
  - _Microft 5y ago
    These are huge problems, not just there but also in western Germany, and they are seeing opposition as well. As far as I am concerned, I would have shut down coal plants and coal mines ages ago (while keeping nuclear power plants running longer instead).
- wait_a_minute 5y ago
  Ahhh yes, the country where those automotive groups kept the world and their country pristine and pure by… checks notes intentionally lying about emissions in their vehicles that are sold all over the place!
  - _Microft 5y ago
    These manufacturers flouted the rules and were eventually caught as well. If we hadn't had the rules, they could have gone on with that unopposed, so this is basically making my point?
    - wait_a_minute 5y ago
      They got away with it for a long time and at a huge scale and barely got a slap on the wrist. Your point is not proven. If anything it is harmed by this reality because it suggests environmental concerns are not actually that high up on Germany’s priorities and it seems like a concern-troll for them to cite environmental concerns now lol. They’re afraid of American muscle challenging their brands. Anyway, a Gigafactory in Romania would have many awesome loyal workers and it’d be a beautiful facility in a beautiful country. :)
      - 5y ago

imtringued 5y ago

It actually isn't a threat to their existence if German car makers respond early enough. It's a bigger threat to their existence if there is nobody to wake them up before they die.

durnygbur 5y ago
If this means less Audi/BMW/Mercedes cars blinding me with their headlights and tailing 2m behind me, let them sleep.
- Lio 5y ago
  You do realise that that is driver behaviour don't you? The arseholes that do that in Audi/BMW/Mercedes will just switch to do the same thing in another brand if these companies cease to exist. Still I never appreciated some of Audi's marketing that seemed to encourage this sort of bad behaviour.
  - durnygbur 5y ago
    It's marketing and sales techniques of these premium brands emphasizing on arrogance, vanity, competitivenes, jealousity. At this point I really don't care because I'm starting to have Pavlov reflexes on seeing their front grills and logos. > The arseholes that do that in Audi/BMW/Mercedes will just switch to do the same thing in another brand if these companies cease to exist. If this is such a global phenomenon, maybe there exists a solution?

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

There is no demographical desert, it's well in commute reach of Berlin. Maybe lacks S-Bahn, but they could bring them in by bus, like the FAANGS do/did theirs from SF to Silicon Valley. edit: I just looked it up on Openstreetmap with the traffic overlay, next stop for the S-Bahn is about 5km away, wouldn't even need to bus them in over long distance, just a tiny shuttle service from either 'Erkner', or 'Grünheide, Fangschleuse, Bahnhof' as can be seen here: https://openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=13&lat=52.42458&lon=13.76715&layers=00B0TT https://openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=13&lat=52.42458&lon...

durnygbur 5y ago
Dude, these are not FAANG dream jobs. Qualified workers will earn gross 3.5k EUR/month, unqualified 2.7k EUR/month [1]. These salaries barely pay the rent in Berlin. Tesla is already trying to search in western Poland apparently unaware it's a similar wasteland. [1] https://gazetalubuska.pl/tesla-gigafactory-kusi-zarobkami-i-zatrudni-tez-polakow-ale-sa-warunki-kto-moze-starac-sie-o-prace/ar/c3-15441435 https://gazetalubuska.pl/tesla-gigafactory-kusi-zarobkami-i-...
- vt85 5y ago
  And what is the average salary of a developer in Berlin? Because I happen to know it's about that range. And it does pay the rent, and there isn't much better option. So, dude, this apparently are very good salaries for Berlin.
  - durnygbur 5y ago
    This is a salary in Berlin for an inexperienced bootcamp graduate. For new arrivals the rents in the city have reached at least 1-1.5k EUR per month long time ago.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Dude, maybe someone living on Hartz IV/ALG II in Marzahn, or something similar would enjoy it? Berlin isn't just Kreuzberg/Neukölln/Friedrichshain, you know?