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Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in Germany. That's probably one of the reasons why major infrastructure projects in Germ
by tut-urut-utut 5y ago
Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in Germany. That's probably one of the reasons why major infrastructure projects in Germany never finish on time.
I'm all for environment, but sometimes these complaints are just for complaint's sake.
- Mrdarknezz 5y agoWell building a battery factory in EUs worst CO2 polluter kinda makes no sense from an environmental viewpoint. Better to build it in Sweden or France which have a heavy Nuclear/Hydro mix in their grid.
- jackson1way 5y agoIs CO2 considered as pollution?
- tankenmate 5y agoThat is a bit of a strawman argument as then you should also argue for stopping all industry in Germany that has a heavy use of electricity (which battery manufacturing doesn't really compared to other things like aluminium smeltering). Germany is moving to more renewable sources of energy and Tesla also plans to put solar panels on the rooves of its buildings.
- Mrdarknezz 5y agoGermany have not took any steps to increase their clean non-intermittent energy sources. Until they do they will be stuck with gas.
- CRConrad 5y agoJust because you have a battery factory in one country doesn't mean you have to charge all the batteries with electricity from that country, does it? (Also: "EUs worst CO2 polluter" according to what measure and which source?)
- usrusr 5y agoNot just against the major ones... it's part of the ambience, like background radiation or typos in commit messages. I probably like it better this way than how the alternative would turn out, but it sure comes at a price.
- Kovah 5y agoI am grateful that Musk has a really long breath, because not only environmental groups but alos government officials made this project so much more difficult than it should be. The gigafactory will bring thousands of jobs but.. yeah... there some small f*king spider or whatever insect in that area that needs to be protected at all costs! you can only shake your head at this.
- martin_a 5y agoIf you were that spider... You'd be happy if someone was trying to take care of you. Change your perspective.
- the-dude 5y agoDoes your empathy extend to plants and bacteria too? Rats? Cockroaches? Uhhhh, bats?
- zephyr1 5y agoSorry spider, too bad. Turns out thousands of jobs and advancing mankind is more important than you.
- lm28469 5y agoIf the only metric you care about is job creation.... We let mega corps rule for the best part of the last century and we all know how it ended. Companies aren't here to create jobs and help mankind, they're here to make money
- dewey 5y ago> The objection is based on the claim that Tesla has not sufficiently clarified what precautions it will take to prevent highly poisonous gas from escaping from the factory, the objection document showed. This seems like a pretty reasonable objection and not just "complaints are just for complaint's sake".
- taf2 5y agoSorry the word sufficiently implies they did provide details for how they are going to take precautions… as the other person said I believe this is the definition of “complaints just for complaints sake” at least IMO
- newsclues 5y agoWhat evidence is there that it is a serious problem?
- HatchedLake721 5y agoLol. On one end of the spectrum we have environmental groups making objections against every tiny detail. On the other end we have - “Highly poisonous gas escaping the factory into the environment? What evidence is there that it is a serious problem?”. A very Nestle approach
- cipher_system 5y agoTBF we have a claim that highly poisonous gas might escape. I have no idea if thats true, how big the risks are or if things already have been cleared in the normal procedures. This isn't the first factory in Germany and one would hope they know how to build them safely but who really knows.
- gmueckl 5y agoEnvironmental activists and other groups opposed to major construction projects in Germany have a tendency to latch on to even the most minor potential issue and complain and sue. The strategy, as far as I can infer it, is to delay the project and drive costs in the hope that it will have to be abandoned. It rarely works, but in combination with long and arduous processes for building permits, major construction projects can be held up in the planning phase for 10 to 20 years these days. The Tesla factory is a huge exception, mostly because Tesla went ahead using temporary permits and took the risk that the final permits may be denied. The project has a lot of political support, which also helped the process along.
- hyperdunc 5y agoEnvironmental groups file objections against every single major project in democratic countries, where it's their right to do so. Occasionally, the objection is worthwhile.
- eplanit 5y agoAnd, every time, the objections drive up costs and delay results.
- user-the-name 5y agoSo does not destroying the environment. Sometimes, we do not want to keep costs and delays down.
- shlant 5y agoand many people are realizing that the environment should be considered over costs and deadlines
- esyir 5y agoUntil the frivolous complaints get them an image of obstructionism and people start to ignore them. Boy who cried wolf, after all.
- shlant 5y agosure it's possible both the public and the government officials making the decisions might get alarm fatigue but from what we are seeing, more and more people are caring about environmental impact (even when it comes to electric cars) and think that we aren't doing enough to prevent it. The scrutiny of all major construction projects will probably only continue to increase as public perception continues to shift.
- CRConrad 5y ago> more and more people are caring about environmental impact 1) It's hard to avoid the suspicion that ever more of those people are only performatively "caring" about environmental impacts; and 2) I'm getting ever more certain that quite a lot of those people who "are caring" lack enough information to care about environmental impact in a sensible way. If you're ill-informed enough, you will naively advocate "solutions" that are worse for the environment than what you're protesting against.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jp555 5y agoHustlers gotta hustle.
- reader_mode 5y agoWouldn't surprise me at all if the competition (VW and the likes) were nudging these groups. They often end up being shills and proxies.
- tut-urut-utut 5y agoThat would actually create an equal playing field, given how easy German companies get finned in the USA. This just shows how big protectionisms is that domestic companies enjoys in every country. We all talk about free competition, but somehow Monsanto needs to pay huge fines in the USA as soon as it became a German company, while VW enjoys full protection in Germany and Europe, while being heavily punished in the USA.
- major505 5y agoMeanwhile, in the name of enviroment, germany gets away of cleaner energy alternatives like Nuclear and increases its dependencies of outside sources of natural gas to keep the country going. I feel that most environmental groups today are more like a religion with dogmas then people trying to do whats best for environment .
- oboes 5y agoIn that case the objections seem reasonable. Here in Belgium there is a growing controversy surrounding a chemical plant in Antwerp leaking PFOS [1] in the environment. Due to this, scientists from the University of Antwerp now advise local residents against eating eggs laid within 15km of the plant [2]. Of course there seem to be no plan to hold the responsible company accountable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanesulfonic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanesulfonic_acid [2] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173456/3m-pollution-pfos-eggs-hatched-within-15-km-of-factory-in-antwerp-pose-health-risks-says-uantwerp/ https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173456/3...
- tankenmate 5y agoDoes Tesla use PFOS in any of it's processes? Aside from that I can't find any sources that list any of the chemicals that the complaint is objecting about. Any links would be handy.