5 ms·

I'm kind of fascinated by how many comments in here are of the "Gee, why use something so complicated? Why not just tie on a rope if you go in the silo?" varie

I'm kind of fascinated by how many comments in here are of the "Gee, why use something so complicated? Why not just tie on a rope if you go in the silo?" variety. The inability to imagine that people who aren't tech bros can and actually do sensible things to address problems they encounter--and that some of their problems might still be harder to solve than coding a signup form--is impressive.

1123581321 5y ago
1. Not many comments are like that. 2. Many (most?) users here do more complex programming work than just signup forms. 3. Not everyone has the privilege of being familiar with both ag and programming. Plus, there are a lot of young users here. Today, a few people are learning more about silo safety. What’s impressive about that?
- midasuni 5y ago
  > Today, a few people are learning more about silo safety. What’s impressive about that? What’s not impressive?
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    I’m always a little amazed, in a good way, how willing people are willing to repeatedly educate others, if that’s what you mean. If you mean everyone should have read articles about ag safety or experienced it through work or family connections, to the point they’re to be blamed if not, I don’t agree. I’m fortunate enough to have been thoroughly exposed to farming growing up, and it sounds like you were too. Sadly, most people don’t get to have that experience due to population distribution in most industrialized countries, and their formal education and learning for fun may have gone in different directions. Field trips, field internships, WWOOF, 4H, etc. help and it’s important to support those efforts. In the meantime, I find it completely normal that some people learn about silo safety when a silo safety article is posted.
    - midasuni 5y ago
      What’s amazing is that people all over he world are learning about industrial scale grain silo safety issues - despite many never having seen one even in passing. The internet makes connections and disseminates information like nothing in history, and that’s amazing
- Semiapies 5y ago
  I think your exemplifying my point with your third objection is impressive. You're not even recognizing a general principle, but instead responding hey, not everyone knows agriculture can be dangerous or complicated!. That's basically the pure form of what I'm talking about--the beliefs about many programmers that 1) they are smart, 2) their work is uniquely difficult among all other work, 3) any other work is obvious and simple, and working from those beliefs, 4) that if other people have problems with their work, they must just be too stupid to do the first few things that pop into programmers' heads.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    I am disagreeing with the general principle. Sorry, I meant to make that clear. I recognize what you’re saying but it’s wrong. I also objected to the dismissal of valid domain expertise in those who perhaps are too specialized in their knowledge.
    - Semiapies 5y ago
      There is no amount of domain expertise that justifies thinking other domains require no expertise.
      - 1123581321 5y ago
        Effectively no one here thinks that. Asking a question is not the same as thinking that.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    Programmers inherently know that doing anything requires a lot of detailed knowledge, because working out how to express it explicitly is their job. But decent programmers get a lot of reinforcement of the idea that they are entitled to be spoon fed with the details of whatever needs to be worked on. They get treated as machines that can be pointed at any problem in any domain. I know intuitively why this attitude of entitlement bothers people, but I don't have the right words at the moment.
inglor_cz 5y ago
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken, who probably died without seeing a computer (1956)
perl4ever 5y ago
Tech people and farmers aren't separate species. Almost everybody used to farm, and largely over the course of the 20th century, people quit farming and started getting college educations and learned to use computers. That's literally my family history. My mom really didn't want to work on the family farm as a teenager, so she studied hard and got a scholarship, and a math degree, and ended up a programmer because women weren't allowed to be engineers. It's such a waste of effort when people go on the attack against stereotypes, regardless if the stereotypes are socially acceptable. Why not address real people, with real experience of your own? You want to say something about "sensible" farmers you have known, or hard problems?

1123581321 5y ago

1. Not many comments are like that. 2. Many (most?) users here do more complex programming work than just signup forms. 3. Not everyone has the privilege of being familiar with both ag and programming. Plus, there are a lot of young users here. Today, a few people are learning more about silo safety. What’s impressive about that?

midasuni 5y ago
> Today, a few people are learning more about silo safety. What’s impressive about that? What’s not impressive?
- 1123581321 5y ago
  I’m always a little amazed, in a good way, how willing people are willing to repeatedly educate others, if that’s what you mean. If you mean everyone should have read articles about ag safety or experienced it through work or family connections, to the point they’re to be blamed if not, I don’t agree. I’m fortunate enough to have been thoroughly exposed to farming growing up, and it sounds like you were too. Sadly, most people don’t get to have that experience due to population distribution in most industrialized countries, and their formal education and learning for fun may have gone in different directions. Field trips, field internships, WWOOF, 4H, etc. help and it’s important to support those efforts. In the meantime, I find it completely normal that some people learn about silo safety when a silo safety article is posted.
  - midasuni 5y ago
    What’s amazing is that people all over he world are learning about industrial scale grain silo safety issues - despite many never having seen one even in passing. The internet makes connections and disseminates information like nothing in history, and that’s amazing
Semiapies 5y ago
I think your exemplifying my point with your third objection is impressive. You're not even recognizing a general principle, but instead responding hey, not everyone knows agriculture can be dangerous or complicated!. That's basically the pure form of what I'm talking about--the beliefs about many programmers that 1) they are smart, 2) their work is uniquely difficult among all other work, 3) any other work is obvious and simple, and working from those beliefs, 4) that if other people have problems with their work, they must just be too stupid to do the first few things that pop into programmers' heads.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  I am disagreeing with the general principle. Sorry, I meant to make that clear. I recognize what you’re saying but it’s wrong. I also objected to the dismissal of valid domain expertise in those who perhaps are too specialized in their knowledge.
  - Semiapies 5y ago
    There is no amount of domain expertise that justifies thinking other domains require no expertise.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      Effectively no one here thinks that. Asking a question is not the same as thinking that.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  Programmers inherently know that doing anything requires a lot of detailed knowledge, because working out how to express it explicitly is their job. But decent programmers get a lot of reinforcement of the idea that they are entitled to be spoon fed with the details of whatever needs to be worked on. They get treated as machines that can be pointed at any problem in any domain. I know intuitively why this attitude of entitlement bothers people, but I don't have the right words at the moment.

inglor_cz 5y ago

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken, who probably died without seeing a computer (1956)

perl4ever 5y ago

Tech people and farmers aren't separate species. Almost everybody used to farm, and largely over the course of the 20th century, people quit farming and started getting college educations and learned to use computers. That's literally my family history. My mom really didn't want to work on the family farm as a teenager, so she studied hard and got a scholarship, and a math degree, and ended up a programmer because women weren't allowed to be engineers. It's such a waste of effort when people go on the attack against stereotypes, regardless if the stereotypes are socially acceptable. Why not address real people, with real experience of your own? You want to say something about "sensible" farmers you have known, or hard problems?