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But then why doesn't Apple take a 30% cut of every Uber driver fee? 30% of every DoorDash delivered, etc? Why is a platform for monetizing artists any differen
by cromwellian 5y ago
But then why doesn't Apple take a 30% cut of every Uber driver fee? 30% of every DoorDash delivered, etc?
Why is a platform for monetizing artists any different than a platform for monetizing your car?
- qeternity 5y agoThey draw a line between digital and physical purchases.
- smnrchrds 5y agoThey don't force Netflix to pay them 30% either. The reality is they take 30% where they can overpower the other party. Where they are overpowered, they acquiesce.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoThey also drew a line between in app and non in app transactions.
- smnrchrds 5y agoThey did not just draw a line; they gerrymandered a line so Netflix would not leave App Store and Apple would not lose its income from smaller players while pretending it is a fair line in the sand. Even Marco Arment has commented on the ridiculousness of the complexity of the line. I highly recommend reading the link below. https://marco.org/2020/09/11/app-review-changes https://marco.org/2020/09/11/app-review-changes
- lotsofpulp 5y agoOh, I did not know all of that. I would agree those policies are ridiculous.
- AlexandrB 5y agoThat post is from Sept. 2020, but Netflix (and Audible, Comixology + others) have been dodging the 30% cut for years simply by not allowing you to pay within the app. I'm not sure Apple had Netflix in mind with this change.
- smnrchrds 5y agoSee my other comment here about Netflix: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27453395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27453395
- acchow 5y agoI believe the majority of a Netflix subscriber's consumption is still on their TV, not on their iPhone/iPad. But you also cannot pay for Netflix in the iPhone app. You have to do it on their website.
- wizzwizz4 5y agoYou can't pay Fanhouse on iOS, either.
- Hnrobert42 5y agoI pay Netflix through my iPhone. I can manage the subscription along with my other iPhone app subscriptions.
- smoldesu 5y ago> But you also cannot pay for Netflix in the iPhone app. You have to do it on their website The App Store explicitly rejects smaller apps that attempt to do this. See Hey, the email client that tried the exact same thing and got the cold-shoulder.
- typest 5y agoThis is because Netflix, knowing Apple would take 30%, does not allow you to sign up via an iPhone app. Apple takes 30% if you sign up via iPhone, not if you sign up via web and then use the iPhone app.
- smnrchrds 5y agoNetflix was able to do this because Apple carved out an exception for them by gerrymandering the rules so Netflix could do this. They did that because Netflix was powerful enough. Hey tried to do a similar thing, but Apple was having none of it. They were going to force them to pay them 30%, because they were not powerful enough. When the social media storm made them more powerful, Apple acquiesced.
- ibero 5y agowait, what was Netflix able to do?
- smnrchrds 5y agoNetflix does not allow you to sign up in their iOS app. You have to sing up and set up payment through their website, but you can use your username and password to use your subscription in iOS. They do not pay the Apple Tax. Hey tried to use the exact same, but Apple said they MUST allow sign ups in the app, using in-app purchase API, and paying 30% to Apple. Apple was not going to allow Hey to do what Netflix/Spotify/etc have done for ages, until public sentiments and social media storm forced them to acquiesce.
- sida 5y agoaudible - the audio book app also does not allow purchases in-app. Fanhouse can just let purchases happen on web
- smnrchrds 5y agoYou mean Audible by Amazon.com, Inc.?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ksec 5y agoThat used to make sense in the early days of Smartphone era. Precisely because Digital have zero variable cost for each additional goods. And Apple wasn't very straight with those rules. They only enforce it on Software and Games, not services. Now everything goes through your Smartphone. And the idea, to quote what Apple has been saying in court, they need to recoup those API cost. As they are using their API, they want a cut. Since the Apps for both Physical and Digital goods uses those API, and Digital Goods doesn't necessary use those API for creation. ( e.g I use Windows to create ), why are they only charging Digital Goods and not Physicals? The only reason why Apple charges 30% of Digital Goods is because they know Digital Goods have zero replication cost. The cost of an additional Digital Goods is essentially zero, they want 30% of it. And Physical goods have basic unit cost. So they are charging base on the product margin. And this was clear in the Wordpess case, once they look at domain name registration where the whole industry is basically operating with 0% margin. Apple decide to put an exemption on it. Then became a question, how did we arrive at 30% in the first place? If you look at Amazon Web Store, they have different percentage rate for different product? Why? Because they is how the market have worked over the years. They are basing the commission on current market rate / margin. Just like your Super Market has different margin for different product. Ever since Apple decided on their Doubling Services Revenue by 2020, they have chased down every single 30% services. It is sad how much good faith they have burned.
- AshamedCaptain 5y agoLet me go even further. Why not get a 30% cut of every single credit card operation validated through that bank's iOS app? Why not get a 30% cut of every wire transfer done through that bank's iOS app? Why not get a 30% cut of every national tax declaration submitted through an iOS app? Neither of these is physical. I actually wish they would do this. It just would go to show the power we are bestowing on these "gatekeepers" while governments keep pushing more and more vital services as "apps".
- xdennis 5y agoYou've explained how those two are different, but not why Apple is entitled to money from digital goods but not physical ones.
- valparaiso 5y agoBecause that’s their business model which was stated by judge in Epic vs Apple case. Such types of business are legal for decades. You can’t change that for Apple by not damaging everyone else. Like Epic sells nearly same Fortnite skins for kids making millions and not allowing any independent designers to sell them in Fortnite skin market.
- insert_coin 5y agoBecause it's America and they can decide to charge whatever they want for their product?
- sharkjacobs 5y agoApple draws a pretty clear line, it's the difference between buying a book and an ebook. An ebook is delivered and consumed on your iPhone or iPad, a book is not.
- post_break 5y agoWhat about e-currency? They don't take a cut from coinbase.
- hakube 5y agoWhat about Patreon?
- lilyball 5y agoPatreon probably gets by because a lot of Patreon rewards are physical items, or other services performed by the creator where Patreon (and by extension Apple) cannot guarantee will be received. Meanwhile an app whose subscription model is “you get access to digital content” falls square within Apple’s IAP rules. I’m rather shocked Fanhouse got approved in the first place.
- arvinsim 5y agoThe fact that Fanhouse got approved means Apple's rules are arbitrary.
- LdSGSgvupDV 5y agoNot so arbitrary. If you are big and in the market Apple is not interested in, you are safe. Once Apple wants to step into that market, you should be careful (ex: spotify).
- sfifs 5y agoDon't let Apple PR fool you into thinking commercial decisions like this are anything like principle based :-) If Amazon, Uber and Lyft drop iPhone support, people will atop using iPhones and that's pretty much the only reason Apple doesn't charge them a commission.
- prezjordan 5y agoThe difference is that Uber and Doordash have a lot bargaining power
- TradingPlaces 5y agoProducts and services in the real world have marginal costs. Digital products and services have near-zero marginal cost, so they pay.