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The drought in the western U.S. is getting bad
- dionian 5y agoI was looking for evidence of anthropogenic climate change in this article but didn’t find any
- aww_dang 5y agoAre there any possible observations which would disprove the anthropocentric climate change theory? If not, is the theory unfalsifiable?
- Cyder 5y agoThe amount of greenhouse gases released by one volcano eruption...
- rrss 5y ago> Global estimates of the annual present-day CO2 output of the Earth’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes range from 0.13 to 0.44 billion metric tons (gigatons) per year > Anthropogenic CO2 emissions—responsible for a projected 35 gigatons of CO2 in 2010 [Friedlingstein et al., 2010] — clearly dwarf all estimates of the annual present-day global volcanic CO2 emission rate. Gerlach, T., (2011), Volcanic versus anthropogenic carbon dioxide, Eos Trans. AGU, 92( 24), 201. https://earthscience.rice.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Gerlach2011_EOS.pdf https://earthscience.rice.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Ger...
- kaybe 5y agoY'know, search engines to help with that question. https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits...
- myko 5y agoDo you actually believe this or are you being sarcastic? To be clear, volcanoes do not contribute more CO2 annually than humans do. https://skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming-intermediate.htm https://skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming-in... "Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year."
- vegetablepotpie 5y agoYou can look at some aspects of the theory for anthropocentric climate change for falsifiable statements. The explanation for the rise of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is that humans burn fossil fuels, such as coal, oil, and natural gas. All of which contain no carbon-13 isotopes because of their isolation underground, whereas the carbon released from living things does contain carbon-13, which is formed from the presence on cosmic rays. If nature, and not humans, are the source of carbon emissions, we would expect to see no decrease, with respect to time, in the proportion of carbon dioxide molecules containing carbon-13 atoms in earths atmosphere.
- ashneo76 5y agoWe should talk about the companies subverting water for bottling water, almond and avocado operations
- mapster 5y agoThe floor is yours senator
- prestigious 5y agoI don’t understand this internet obsession with bottling water. Surely under the worst drought conditions bottling water has to be the very last thing to stop. Literally water for humans to drink has to be a top priority.
- Finnucane 5y agoThe business model of the bottled water industry is to take public water from limited local supplies and then distribute it globally, obviously at a significant profit to themselves, regardless of the actual need for that water.
- fb13 5y agoFrom what I understand, it's the opposite. I cannot get the same bottled water in the southeast as in the northeast, because it's bottled locally.
- mc32 5y agoOh, they just mad cuz the companies get a concession for cheap. That is it.
- triceratops 5y agoIs that not a valid thing to be angry about?
- superkuh 5y agoUnless the US embraces nuclear fission (or renewables at a scale not yet seen) for ocean water desalination the arid deserts of the southwest (and they have always been arid, that's not new) might have to return to their natural state instead of the artificial state they've been irrigated to the last century.
- karlkloss 5y agoAre you aware that desalination plants are a huge threat to marine life? Thias can't be the solution.
- adt2bt 5y agoDo you have a source? I was not aware and would like to learn more.
- germinalphrase 5y agoThe brine is too salty for marine life causing dead zones.
- ivanech 5y ago"Brine, water comprising about five percent salt, often includes toxins such as chlorine and copper used in desalination, it said. By contrast, global sea water is about 3.5 percent salt." "Brine can cut levels of oxygen in seawater near desalination plants" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-brine-idUSKCN1P81PX https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-brine-idUSKCN...
- Ericson2314 5y agoCan we lay those huge tubes underwater to disperse it drip irrigation style? It's not like it's a lot of salt once diffused, especially with those glaciers melting. We're already assuming far more electricity, so I'm not too concerned about the energy required to pump the brine many miles out, just worried about capital and repair costs.
- zpeti 5y agoI'm in eastern Europe, pay isn't too bad, rent isn't too bad, our city is getting developed, new buildings etc. We have lots of water, May was actually one of the coldest I've ever experienced. We had hardly any lockdowns because of covid, and we were fine. Then I see all the news from California, the whole economy got closed up, there's a massive drought. Rents have been insane for years in most cities. Huge homeless and drugs problem in LA, San Francisco. And on top of this, some of the highest tax rates in the US. For what? What is happening to this paradise state? And what worries me a lot is, a lot of the culture worldwide is set by people living in these conditions. Not just film, but tech now. I mean I can see why everyone in california is frustrated with capitalism and all the rest of it, but that's california... The conditions of which I've just listed.
- just_one_time_ 5y agoExtreme liberal thinking has destroyed it.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoIf it worries you in Eastern Europe imagine how the people of middle America feel.
- wil421 5y agoCalifornia is likely the most regulated state and has the most “”socialist”” policies/laws. Not sure why they would be complaining as they are the least “capitalist” state in the US. The laws and regulations they pass are directly contributing to homelessness and lack of housing.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xbp 5y ago> The laws and regulations they pass are directly contributing to homelessness and lack of housing. v misleading esp w/ language such as 'likely' and 'most socialist' w/ zero sources.
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- JohnCohorn 5y agoAnd here in TX we’re getting Noahic levels of rain.
- seoulbran 5y agoDrowning in Austin the past weeks
- brootstrap 5y agoThe geography of united states and north america is what gives us unique weather. The rocky mountains create a huge 'divide' in our geography and naturally ends up causing what is known as 'lee troughing' on the eastern side of rockies. Essentially the mountain range promotes low pressure development (storm development) on the eastern side. Which is why the other side of the mountain is so dry. Our side of the general storm system is wet, their side out west of rockies is dry.
- athenot 5y agoEven without climate change, pumping more water than the amount refilling the aquifers is not sustainable. I understand why dry climates with artificial irrigation produce the best outcomes for many types of crops. But that's just not sustainable.
- fullstop 5y agoIt's even more complicated as aquifers cross state lines and you can end up with situations where one state has 10% of the aquifer but can draw more than 10% of the water.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoThere are more water rights than water left.
- throwaway894345 5y agoAgreed. It's infuriating that states can be so irresponsible with their water policy, leaving such a horrible legacy to the next generation.
- egberts1 5y agoClimate Emergencies 1966 - Oil gone in 10 years 1967 - Dire famine forecast by 1975 1968 - Overpopulation will spread worldwide 1969 - Everyone will disappear in a Cloud of Blue Steam in 1989 1970 - World will use up its natural resources by 2000 1970 - Urban citizens will require gas mask by 1985 1970 - Nitrogen buildup will make all lands unusable 1970 - Decaying pollution will kill all the fish 1970s - Killer Bees!!! 1970 - Ice Age by 2000 1970 - Americans will be subjected to water rationing by 1975 and food rationing by 1980 1971 - New Ice Age coming by 2020 or 2030 1972 - New Ice Age by 2070 1972 - Oil depleted in 20 years 1974 - Space satellites show New Ice Age coming fast 1974 - Another Ice Age? 1974 - Ozone depletion a great peril to life 1976 - Scientific consensus planet cooling; famines imminent 1977 - Department of Energy says oil will peak in 90s. 1978 - No end in sight to 30-year global cooling 1980 - Acid rain kills life in lakes 1980 - Peak oil in 2000 1988 - Regional drought (that never happened) in 90s. 1988 - Temperatures in DC will hit record high (no records broken) 1988 - Maldive Islands will be underwater by 2018 (nope) 1989 - Rising sea level will obliterate nations if nothing done by 2000. 1989 - New York City Westside Highway underwater by 2018. 1990 - Cellphones caused cancer 1996 - Peak oil in 2020 2000 - Children won’t know what snow is 2001 - WiFi causes cancer 2002 - Famines if we don’t give up eating fishes, meat, and diary 2002 - Peak oil in 2010 2004 - Britain will be Siberia by 2024 2005 - Manhattan underwater by 2015 2006 - Super Hurricanes!!! 2008 - Arctic will be ice-free by 2018 2008 - Climate genius Al Gore predict ice-free Arctic by 2013 2009 - Climate genius Prince Charles says we have 96 months to save the world 2009 UK Prime Ministers says 50 days to “save planet from catastrophe” 2009 Al Gore moves ice-free Arctic prediction from 2013 to 2014 2010 - 4G cell tower causes cancers. 2013 Arctic ice-free by 2015 2014 Only 500 days before climate chaos 2019 - Hey Greta, we really need you to convince them this time. 2020 - Australian bush fires are caused by climate change. 2020 - 5G cellular towers causes cancers. 2020 - Polar bears could be lost by 2100 2021 - Volcano caldera ready to wipe out civilization Can’t we make NPR a non-profit instead?
- thehappypm 5y agoThis isn't some prediction, this is the present
- aww_dang 5y ago
- HenryKissinger 5y agoIt's surprising that in 2021, people in one of the most industrialized countries in the world still rely on such transient things as snowpack, rain, and river flow for water. Like our primitive ancestors thousands of years ago. Imagine if we still used sail ships (outside of amateur/recreational activities). Desalination plants is the way of the future.
- qzw 5y agoDon’t we always go for the lowest hanging fruit first? Why would that be a surprise when it comes to water?
- triceratops 5y agoIs it any stranger than relying on sunlight for farming? It's the same thing, really.
- specialist 5y agoCisterns would be nice.
- beej71 5y agoDesal is coming, but we should know the scope of the undertaking. California's water usage could be met with about 2000 desal plants each producing about 20 million gallons per day [1]. (Which would be over 2 plants per mile of coastline.) Of course, it's not like all the rain has stopped immediately so they wouldn't have to go all in. But even going 10% in is going to be a heavy lift. Ag is a major water user, and I feel we could do a lot more work there to get equal yields for less water... It just costs more. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desertsun.com/amp/14400333 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desertsun.com/amp/14400333
- Ericson2314 5y agoYeah I think we should aim for all non-agricultural water covered by desalination first. That should be relatively easily. Then we figure out what to do about the agriculture.
- tamaharbor 5y agoPerhaps we shouldn’t continue to farm in such arid regions.
- protomyth 5y agoPerhaps we shouldn't put major cities in arid regions, or we get off our behinds and get desalination going at the levels needed to sustain such cities.
- beej71 5y agoIn the major cities' defense, they were put there before this was a major issue, complaints from the Owens River Valley aside. I grew up in the Central Valley decades ago... It's sad, amazing, and terrifying to see this change happen effectively before my eyes.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- beej71 5y agoGiven our history, we'll do it until it's no longer profitable.
- anjel 5y agoJust like the Mayans...
- fasteddie31003 5y agoWow the Bureau of Water Reclamation actually has a pretty good website where you can graph all the aspects of reservoir data. https://www.usbr.gov/rsvrWater/HistoricalApp.html https://www.usbr.gov/rsvrWater/HistoricalApp.html I would say that less inflow to Lake Powell would be a sign of climate change. If you look at the past inflows since 1965 the most recent years seem to be in line with the past. It looks like total releases might have increased a little lately but not that much.
- twiddling 5y agoCadillac Desert is a recommended text
- mistrial9 5y agorelated: Climate-driven megadrought is emerging in western US, study says (2020, April 16) https://phys.org/news/2020-04-climate-driven-megadrought-emerging-western.html https://phys.org/news/2020-04-climate-driven-megadrought-eme... Modelling: North American megadroughts in the Common Era: reconstructions and simulations Benjamin I. Cook et al 2016 Fire: Drought, Tree Mortality, and Wildfire in Forests Adapted to Frequent Fire Stephans et al 2018
- refurb 5y agoOh a computer model! Anyone want to put money down that it can actually predict the future?
- mistrial9 5y agoI am honestly startled by the exhuberant hubris -- from the first link: "Earlier studies were largely model projections of the future," said lead author Park Williams, a bioclimatologist at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. "We're no longer looking at projections, but at where we are now. We now have enough observations of current drought and tree-ring records of past drought to say that we're on the same trajectory as the worst prehistoric droughts."
- throwaway894345 5y agoTFA talks about agriculture being the biggest drain on California's water supply--I'm always disappointed that California (probably the most left-leaning state in the country) can't pass sane environmental policies... I can empathize with the impulse to defer restrictions on carbon emissions--carbon is a little intangible and even if California goes to zero co2 it is still impacted by the rest of the world's carbon policy. But water? Every Californian is impacted by the droughts and how other states or nations manage their water has little bearing on California's water supply (of course California's drought is a product of global co2 emissions but I strongly suspect California could have plenty of water if it was managed sustainably).
- smallnamespace 5y agoIt’s not that simple. Water rights in California are complex, often dating back to the Gold Rush era. It’s based on ‘first come first serve’ - the first owner to take a certain amount of water from a waterway can continue to do so. Directly modifying those rights would take a long time and be challenged in the courts. Also, the Central Valley is full of poor farmers who have already been badly affected by recent drought (just drive down there to look at the billboards), so restricting agricultural usage would be another nail in the coffin for their livelihoods.
- throwaway894345 5y agoSubsidize the farmers' losses and overhaul the water rights (deal with legal challenges later doesn't make the problem go away). Eminent domain as necessary. My family has farmed for centuries, so I sympathize, but sustainability is paramount.
- kec 5y agoCalifornia sold rights to pump water to farmers a century ago. The only way to legally undo that is to use eminent domain to purchase those rights back. Given how productive and valuable the farm land is and how scarce water is those rights are now absurdly expensive… it’s an intractable problem.
- joelcollinsdc 5y agoAnecdote... in colorado the snowpack level for 2021 is average-ish. And we just got a boatload of rain, its the wettest spring in a while.
- zmj 5y agoThe statewide average is deceptive here. The northern Front Range (South Platte basin) had a very snowy / wet spring, but the rest of the state is well below historical averages.
- fiftyfifty 5y agoUnfortunately the part of Colorado that feeds much of the rest of the southwestern part of the US it's water is still below average in snowpack this year: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/co/snow/products/?cid=nrcs144p2_063323 https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/co/snow/pro...
- mensetmanusman 5y agoNote that there is discussion as to whether the drought narrative is driven by interested parties that wish the natural ecology of CA was different: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-there-is-no-drought https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t...
- dfilppi 5y agoCalifornia has an ocean. Desalinated. Not brain surgery.
- theandrewbailey 5y agoYes, it's brain surgery. Desalination requires lots of energy, which is another thing that California is in short supply of. Hope they like more rolling blackouts.
- jefurii 5y agoFrom reading recent news, California agriculture uses way more water than California residents. Now we need fruits and vegetables so we can't just do away with agriculture. But we can do something about which agriculture we allow in the state. Just over 50% of the water in the Colorado River Basin is used to produce beef and dairy. This means the water consumed by the animals themselves along with the water used to grow the alfalfa they eat. Also, lots of alfalfa is sold overseas to be fed to cattle. Almonds are by far the most water-intensive crop in the Central Valley. Much of the crop goes to almond milk. If we could roll back these two food classes we would have much less of a water problem.
- kyleee 5y agoBook recommendation: Cadillac Desert Lots of good info on the history of water rights and issues in the western US. IIRC it mentions a bunch of alfalfa (very water intensive crop) being farmed with coveted water from the Colorado river, among other peculiarities
- slenk 5y agoExcept you don't NEED to grow fruits and vegetables on borderland deserts...
- JudgePenitent 5y agoThis problem will not go away unless we change our food production methods. This is a global challenge. While it might centralize in specific regions, food production destabilization in one region affects others obviously. Today, we have technology that can replace soil based farming. Aero/hydro farming is already here; I purchased strawberries from my local grocery store just the other day, and they tasted great.[1] There are other, far larger B-corp certified solutions such as [2]. The economics of it still has to be figured out in some cases, yet if we invested and developed in this technology it would be far healthier for our environment in general, I believe. 1: https://www.plan-berries.com/ https://www.plan-berries.com/ 2: https://www.aerofarms.com/farms/ https://www.aerofarms.com/farms/
- maelito 5y agoTime to read ecotopia