16 ms·

Vivaldi 4.0

469 points by 0x49d1 5y ago

premium-komodo 5y ago
I keep an eye on Vivaldi because it might be the one browser that isn't going insane or becoming intolerable in one way or another. I'd probably switch if they'd offer some subscription model so that it's clear what I'm paying for, and that they're not making money off of me any underhanded way.
oblio 5y ago
Vivaldi Mail? That took a while :-D Vivaldi is developed by a team created by the former Opera founder and CEO. Vivaldi kind of tries to re-create the spirit of Opera, but I think it's going to be too hard to do it. For those who didn't use it, Opera was first a paid browser (which limited its reach), then an ad-supported browser (which again limited its reach). It then finally became a free browser but by then it was too late. It had its own, super fast, rendering engine (I forget its name, Presto?). It had a built in email client, feed reader, calendar (unfortunately with no Exchange or Gmail integration), a notes app, a powerful download manager and even a Bitorrent client. And a TON of features and UI flexibility. It was super compact, a marvel of engineering and UX design that managed to pack all those things in a package of about 5MB at the time, and you wouldn't even see or load the extra functionality like the email client if you didn't use it. Unfortunately with HTML5 and the Chrome-ification of the web, it couldn't keep up :-( Vivaldi tries to do the same on top of web techs and web techs just can't handle it. Web techs are almost as flexible but they're really slow and bulky. Still, I wish them luck.
- whikhngbu359 5y ago
  I believe Opera was the first browsers to introduce tabs.
  - _trampeltier 5y ago
    Yes, years before other browsers had tabs.
  - thanatos519 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure Galeon had tabs before Opera, but maybe something had tabs before Galeon.
    - thanatos519 5y ago
      (Galeon had mouse gestures, too!)
    - chucky 5y ago
      According to Wikipedia, Netcaptor was the very first browser to have tabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History However, Opera supported an MDI interface before it supported tabs, and if you count that it may have supported multiple browser windows within one MDI window even earlier, which could be said to be a form of tabs. Everything depends on how you define "tabs", as usual.
      - slightwinder 5y ago
        I thin kyou misread that. Wikipedia says InternetWorks was the first browser with Tabbed Interface, released 1994.
    - Winsaucerer 5y ago
      I loved tabs in Galeon, it's the only browser I remembering having it at the time, but I probably didn't try Opera. I was sad when Galeon went away (or removed tabs? I don't recall) and I couldn't find another browser with tab support for a while. Again, I may have overlooked Opera :)
      - bzzzt 5y ago
        Galeon was also the only usable Linux browser having a native look on Gnome (Epiphany was the other one, but I remember it having more difficulty with a lot of sites). It embedded the Mozilla engine (which was a supported use case back then, before Firefox) but launched a lot faster. Usable on a 200Mhz machine at least.
    - 5y ago
  - crummy 5y ago
    It also had mouse gestures, right click drag left to go back, right click... swirl? to reload... felt like I was casting spells!
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      I think that came during the period of Black & White by Lionhead Studios. (which was a milestone in using gestures to cast spells by swirly your mouse around)
      - danielscrubs 5y ago
        They where released within one month of each other.
        slightwinder 5y ago
        And Opera openly admitted that they copied B&W there, because they considered it a very useful feature. It even came in a sub-version, which at that time was somewhat unusual for such an important feature.
    - joshuaissac 5y ago
      > right click drag left to go back, right click... swirl? to reload I still customise my Chrome and Firefox mouse gestures add-ons to work exactly this way, despite having long forgotten where those conventions originally came from. Other gestures I have, probably also from Opera: DL: Left tab RL: Right tab D: Page Down U: Page Up RLR: Close tab/window
      - AfterShave 5y ago
        Mouse gestures, right click scroll between tabs, closed tab history & current tab history. I thank Opera for showing me the way. Sadly the last two were killed off in Firefox in that last big add-on update. I didn't find anything that works since then.
    - StavrosK 5y ago
  - rotten 5y ago
    It also had a built-in pop-up blocker which none of the other browsers at the time had.
  - slightwinder 5y ago
    No, it was not. That's a popular myth, but it's wrong. There were other browser with Tabs before opera event tried them. And Operas first attempts wasn't really Tabs in the modern sense. It was just a poor working button-bar for an MDI, which was a bit cumbersome to use. They fixed it two versions later, around the time when the feature gained attention in other browsers and even Mozilla Suit got it's first Extension that became so insanly popular that it was build into Phoenix (later renamend to Firebird, then Firefox) out of the box. Though, Opera tried many things in that area. There never really lost the MDI-Spirit and went with different approached than most other TDI-Implementations. Made it more useful for some, more complicated for others. So for certain specific functions they probablly were the first ones.
- littlecranky67 5y ago
  Loved Opera back in the day. It had "page specific settings" that would let me allow to set HTTP/Socks5 proxies on a per-page setting - today you cannot even set a proxy anymore without changing your system settings (not browser settings). If anyone asks, I used this heavily to bypass country blocks/redirects on a per-page level and also with privoxy on some privacy invading sites.
  - 0ld 5y ago
    > today you cannot even set a proxy anymore without changing your system settings (not browser settings). you can in firefox settings you can also do it in chrome with the cli parameter --proxy-server
    - pantulis 5y ago
      > you can in firefox settings Obviously a remnant from the Netscape codebase. They will fix it.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    foxyproxy does this. i set up a ssh passthrough and routed foxyproxy with only specifed pages to use local proxy which meant they would be routed through the ssh. it worked for what i wanted
    - herjazz 5y ago
      I miss Proxomitron
  - mobilio 5y ago
    I still miss Opera 12.16...
  - gsich 5y ago
    Firefox has proxy settings. Socks5 is bugged though. Doesn't support user/password authentication.
  - nnwright 5y ago
- metalliqaz 5y ago
  What do you mean "on top of web techs"? Aren't all browsers web techs...??
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    'modern' browsers use/incorporate a lot of the tech that is used to build web-sites(-apps). i.e. convergence of content and presentation
  - oblio 5y ago
    The Opera UI was built using Qt widgets. So native, C++ code. The Vivaldi UI is built using React, I think. Native UIs are much faster than web UIs, for example.
    - metalliqaz 5y ago
      doesn't this also apply to Firefox?
- marban 5y ago
  Not to forget Opera Mini which did server-side rendering for mobiles. Results were WAP-like quality and mostly sucked (by nature of device's capabilities back then).
  - forty 5y ago
    I disagree. Opera mini allowed me to browse the web almost normally (I was using a Nokia E65) and I never really understood why I regularly see people saying the iPhone brought internet to smartphones or something of the sort.
    - pmontra 5y ago
      I also used Opera on my old Symbian phone. Probably the number of iPhones after two or three years was larger than the number of mobile devices that people actually used to browse the web before the iPhone. Nevertheless where I live (Italy) the number of Android devices were always greater than the number of iPhones. I'm thinking about the Galaxy S and S2 in the very early 2010s and the other flagship phones of the day. So, the iPhone brought the touchscreen to the masses (the iPod too), Android brought the mobile internet.
      - forty 5y ago
        Yes I give them touch screen. I admit I was a touch screen skeptic (the kind of person who became mad when someone would touch a screen so doing that on a regular basis seemed a really bad idea to me ^^) and did not get a phone with a touch screen until much later, when they were basically the only option :)
  - jlelse 5y ago
    Opera Mini is still a thing.
    - Ayesh 5y ago
      Yes, I gave it a spin for old times sake. It's now full of ads, sometimes even popping up in lockscreen.
- howolduis 5y ago
  it forces you to provide a phone number to use it. I'm out... too invasive
- grishka 5y ago
  > Vivaldi kind of tries to re-create the spirit of Opera, but I think it's going to be too hard to do it. Oh, it's definitely recreating the experience of Opera. You encounter an annoying bug, you report it to their private bug tracker, and then they'll fix it in two years. Maybe. If you're lucky. And you don't get to know its status in the meantime. And the macOS version still feels like an afterthought sometimes. Still better than Chrome and by far better than Safari.
  - oblio 5y ago
    I guess I had it good, I was using the Windows and Linux Opera versions. The Windows version was always solid.
    - pentagone 5y ago
      I used it exclusively for about a year (iirc) on Linux and had only some minor crashes. When they switched to Chromium I switched to Firefox and never had a single crash since. (It's not only luck, I disable all the feature-creep I know of in about:config)
      - Ziomislaw 5y ago
        do you possibly have a list of those to share please?
        pentagone 5y ago
        That list would be very long :D If you have some time you can look through: - all the .enabled entrys in - all the .disabled entrys - https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js
    - grishka 5y ago
      I vividly remember how it took them several months to make Opera display Flash content correctly (at 2x scale instead of a blurry upscaled-after-rasterization mess) on retina displays when I just bought my macbook. Other browsers had it done in a matter of weeks, days if you installed a beta build. And that was 2012, back when flash was an essential part of the web.
- mcintyre1994 5y ago
  Opera had some ridiculously powerful keyboard shortcuts and performance as well for the time. I used to play this web game years ago and past beginner level the only way to compete was to use Opera because you could use a combination of keyboard shortcuts to send attacks/defences from multiple tabs within milliseconds.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- muyuu 5y ago
  it abandoned the Opera engine though, to focus on the UI experience so, technically not very different to Brave although many users are led to believe it kept the former Opera render codebase
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  Just to clarify in case someone's wondering, a browser named Opera still exists and gets updated now, but neither the people behind it nor the underlying technology are the same as in the old Opera this post is referring to. As an old-time classic Opera user since version 5 or so, I do use the current Opera because I find it somewhat better than Chrome (it has more built-in stuff, including mouse gestures, Whatsapp/Telegram support, etc. I hate the barebones browser+extensions model) but unfortunately it's miles behind the old Opera experience. I have also tried Vivaldi, and while it's a worthy effort, I'm sure many people will love it and I recommend trying it, it's missing one of the Opera characteristics I valued the most: Opera had practically zero UI lag/latency, whereas Vivaldi is rather slow, as the parent post says.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    As someone who now uses Vivaldi as their daily driver I can vouch that it's a bit slow, especially on older hardware. Obviously it's not intolerable, but it would be nice to see some improvements in that area.
    - rasz 5y ago
      If you ever get curious how can UI be so slow, after all "its just js, js is fast", here is how they handle closing browser Tabs currently: https://www.reddit.com/r/vivaldibrowser/comments/nrasof/fix_for_the_crash_on_update_check_and_two_new/h0mla1d/ https://www.reddit.com/r/vivaldibrowser/comments/nrasof/fix_... tldr: Tab bar is just a DIV full of SPANs, one SPAN per Tab. Pages are in a list of DIVs containing iframes. Switching a Tab is a simple process of moving "active" class from one SPAN to another and changing style of one iframe to "visibility: hidden; z-index: -1;" while another one gets "visibility: inherit; z-index: initial;". So far so ~good. So how does Vivaldi handle Tab close? You would guess closing a Tab would entail - switching iframe visibility away from Tab being closed first - instant visual feedback for the user - removing SPAN representing Tab we want closed - maybe fixing widths of remaining SPANs What actually happens is a horror show normally reserved for second semester CS students trying OOP for the first time. List of all Tabs gets traversed multiple times, most of them rewritten couple of times, everything generating individual DOM changes. 10 Tabs open and you close the first one = ~30 DOM Reflows. 100 Tabs open and you close two in the middle = ~300 DOM Reflows. 100 Tabs open and you close first 10 = ~3000 DOM Reflows. Stuttering UI is the staple of Vivaldi, codebase is full of functions running in linear/polynomial time to the number of Tabs open/Tab position on the list, in places where O(1) is trivial. Vivaldi is a browser that used to Resize contents of every single Tab opened when you resized its window - resizing was slower the more Tabs you had in Tab bar :o, going fullscreen could take 10 seconds.
- krisgenre 5y ago
  Also, during the days of Symbian OS Opera Mini was the best mobile browser available. I remember logging into my bank account and actually doing a transaction on my Nokia N73 running Opera Mini.
- thunderbong 5y ago
  I still use Opera 12, by the way. Works fine for about 75% of the web. For the remaining, I use Vivaldi!
  - iforgotpassword 5y ago
    Not my experience. I use it out of nostalgia, but only for select sites. Many sites with modern SSL config won't load. Click a random link that lands you on a js-heavy site and the browser will stutter or often crash. Which is impressive because back in the day opera once had the fastest js engine by a mile. Goes to show how far V8 has come. But browsing traditional sites that just have a little bit of js and are mostly static still feel faster to navigate on this 8 year old browser than the most recent chrome.
    - thunderbong 5y ago
      Well, I browse without Javascript, so maybe that's why it works. And I've got a keyboard shortcut to open the current site in Vivaldi as a fallback.
- pbsb 5y ago
  Kind of off topic, but what do you mean by chrome-ification of the web?
  - oblio 5y ago
    Chrome is taking over the web and a ton of features start/are only in Chrome. Youtube had a "bug" which made it 2x slower in Firefox, for example.
    - takeda 5y ago
      Yep, it's the IE thing all over again.
- 55555 5y ago
  I use a browser probably 12 hours per day. Maybe there's enough people willing to pay a dollar or two a month for that to be a possible business model again.
  - awful_waffle 5y ago
    This honestly sounds like a great idea. At this point I'd pay money for a browser that was private, fast, and dev-friendly, simply to avoid the moral dilemma of switching from FF to a Chrome clone.
    - todd3834 5y ago
      Is Safari an option for you? (Mac?)
      - kristofferR 5y ago
        Safari is about the least dev friendly browser there is. Their API support is atrocious, especially for web extensions.
        freediver 5y ago
        Perhaps Orion will be of interest to you (WebKit fork with web extensions support, I am the founder)
        kristofferR 5y ago
        Really interesting project, will check it out!
    - CaptainZapp 5y ago
      What's wrong with Firefox? It's an honest question, since as a user I really love it. Is it the 'dev-friendly', which Firefox lacks?
      - 5y ago
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  Forgot to mention that China owns them, so say goodbye to data privacy.
- SkyMarshal 5y ago
  > It had its own, super fast, rendering engine (I forget its name, Presto?). It had a built in email client, feed reader, calendar (unfortunately with no Exchange or Gmail integration), a notes app, a powerful download manager and even a Bitorrent client. And a TON of features and UI flexibility. And don’t forget its MDI interface [1] which made using all those features a joy and is still today better than all the tab implementations of modern browsers (for power users at least). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface
- bookofsand 5y ago
  paid => ads => free. How is a 'free browser' supposed to pay its developers?
  - ols 5y ago
    They licensed the browser for devices like set-top boxes and similar devices. There was also money coming from Google (for using it as a default search engine). I guess they had also some business model built around Opera Mini and relations with mobile providers.
    - Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago
      Did you say that desktop should be subsidized by non-desktop browsers?
      - ols 5y ago
        I didn't say it should, I just summarized what Opera did.
- pjs_ 5y ago
  Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. - Jamie Zawinski
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  > Opera was first a paid browser (which limited its reach) I'd argue that this, in combination with easy availability of pirated serials (and the actual quality of the engine, of course), contributed to Opera popularity because "why use freeware when you can use premium software (which other people supposedly even pay for) for free". I believe this works so if I were going to release a commercial app I would make sure to put some serials on pirate sites. Even today, if you release a new Chromium-based browser, make it paid but easily piratable it probably is going to enjoy more popularity than if you release it for free.
- echelon 5y ago
  > Unfortunately with HTML5 and the Chrome-ification of the web, it couldn't keep up :-( One of the worst things to happen to the web was for Google to start pushing at a speed and scale only they could keep up with. The web is theirs now.
- drdavid 5y ago
  The Vivaldi mail thing must have been in the works for a while. Since very early on, they offered an email address at their .net domain. It wasn't integrated or an email client, but they had that aspect setup early on.
- mrtweetyhack 5y ago
  Opera is owned by China
- forgotpwd16 5y ago
  >It then finally became a free browser Clarifying it became a freeware browser which even after the end of its life remained closed source. >but by then it was too late It was the third most popular browser in the pre-Chrome era after IE and Firefox.
Vinnl 5y ago
Off-topic, but: does anyone know how Vivaldi is funded? I tried looking for it for a bit, but couldn't find any income streams.
- haunter 5y ago
  First hit in Google https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
  - csabakissi 5y ago
    that link doesn't work: Error establishing a database connection
    - henryackerman 5y ago
      Seems like the website was hugged to death...
    - ivanbakel 5y ago
      You can access the archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20210506194445/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210506194445/https://vivaldi.c... The short version is: they get money from things like search engine deals, which guide Vivaldi users to third-party services.
      - vorticalbox 5y ago
        The ad blocker is also set up to allow ads that support vivaldi by default.
    - oblio 5y ago
      It did work before we killed it. HN (and other news sites) hugged the Vivaldi site to death :-D
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
nik736 5y ago
It's down.
- smarx007 5y ago
  HN hug :) https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-4-0/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.c...
  - mxcrossr 5y ago
    I’m kind of surprised HN could take them down
throw737858 5y ago
I think it follows spirit of old Opera 12 very well. It is even opensource (kind of).
- rplnt 5y ago
  For true old Opera experience there's Otter. https://otter-browser.org/ https://otter-browser.org/ But it's being developed by a very small community, and probably can't keep up, haven't tried it in a while.
inter_netuser 5y ago
website is down. how much spyware is in their browser? is it fully open sourced?
- j_koreth 5y ago
  I'm not aware of any spyware in the browser. I believe the source is online but not licensed under a free license (Someone is free to correct me on that).
  - chucky 5y ago
    The browser engine, being a Chromium variant, is open-sourced. The source code for the UI is not available under an open source license it seems: https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/privacy/is-vivaldi-open-source/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/privacy/is-vivaldi-open-sou...
    - dagurp 5y ago
      More on the subject https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-browser-open-source/
edu 5y ago
It's down, archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-4-0/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.c...
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Not going to download it just to find out that they didn't bother supporting Office365.
- diveanon 5y ago
  Don't blame them, office365 is a pain in the ass to support.
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    I know. That's why I wrote the comment. There's honestly very little value in yet another IMAP client. Fixing a little bit the broken ecosystems around Exchange would be a million times more useful to the world.
- oblio 5y ago
  Talk about entitlement. 1. It's a beta product. 2. It's free. 3. They support IMAP/POP3 so you can make do with that for now.
rplnt 5y ago
I really tried to like Vivaldi, and it could be a good browser, but is so unbearably slow. The whole UI is unresponsive. Opening a new tab can take almost a second. Price for javascript apps I guess. edit for clarification: This was on OSX, on Windows it was OK. Used it for almost a year as a secondary browser, no change, gave up.
- andai 5y ago
  Do you have an older machine, or is it even slow on new machines? I tried Vivaldi last year on my computer which is about ten years old now. Vivaldi was extremely sluggish (Chrome and Firefox still run fine), I was hoping to come back to it once I upgrade my computer.
  - rplnt 5y ago
    It was a relatively new hw, MB Pro 2017. No issues with other browsers.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    My experience with an 10 years old computer with win 7 is that firefox is slow and vivaldi is faster. I don't use chrome. On Android vivaldi is much faster than firefox.
- zaphirplane 5y ago
  Is it based on electron. - drum roll - :)
  - neolog 5y ago
    That just means it's based on chromium, which makes sense for a browser.
    - pantulis 5y ago
      But not that much for a new/mail reader -- even 100% native Mailmate sweats with my 50k message GMail archive. While it may work for casual users, I'm not really that convinced it is the killer feature Vivaldi users are expecting.
alichapman 5y ago
Anyone else getting 500s trying to access this?
bitigchi 5y ago
For an open-source recreation of Opera 12, there is Otter: https://otter-browser.org https://otter-browser.org
- warpech 5y ago
  Thanks for the link! Browsing the source code, I love the author's habit to make a code commit every single day [0]. That looks like a powerful way to move the project forward while avoiding fatigue. https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/commits/170f3627a79e8b3d18d921e2598c97f6017c96b0 https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/commits/170f36...
- idoubtit 5y ago
  I used Otter as a second browser for some time, but, despite all my empathy from the project, a few years ago I stopped. - Installing and upgrading was a pain on Linux, and compiling was even worse. At first there were no AppImage for it. Then they were created but at first they were half-broken (the whole process of creating an AppImage is hacky and Qt projects were especially hard). It seems the AppImage broke again in 2018. - The web engine comes from Qt. IIRC, it's an old fork of webkit. Many sites were not compatible, and I suspect the situation goes worse with every year. I recommend trying Otter, but don't expect it to replace your everyday browser.
  - bitigchi 5y ago
    It's in the process of switching to QtWebEngine, which is the Chromium version.
thanatos519 5y ago
I'm trying Vivaldi again since as an expat I depend on single-click in-browser translation. For me, the killer feature is built-in no-nonsense vertical tabs, something I had in Galeon many years ago because it used the Gtk+ tab widget. I hate hate hate that Chromium cannot do this, because dogma.
- warpech 5y ago
  FWIW, Microsoft Edge also has vertical tabs.
  - thanatos519 5y ago
    Sorry, you lost me at 'Microsoft'.
    - approxim8ion 5y ago
      https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/vivaldi.html https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/vivaldi.html Seems like your bar is low, but not that low.
      - kunagi7 5y ago
        The last update was made in 2018. That's a long time. It would be nice to revisit this now that they've have added more services (Mail, translations, expanded Sync) and see their impact to the browser's privacy.
      - fuzzylightbulb 5y ago
        Got anything more current than 2018?
    - warpech 5y ago
      Perhaps that was to be expected after you wrote that you used to use Galeon.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
j_koreth 5y ago
I'm surprised it took this long for Vivaldi Mail to come out. I believe it was teased relatively early on in Vivaldi's life although I don't envy the developers that had to work with IMAP. I am glad to see that some love given to RSS in a browser since it's been marginalized in all mainstream browsers. It's frustrating to see a refuge of decentralized media consumption be thrown away considering privacy concerns. I am not the biggest fan of the licensing policy along with the inclusion of a third party translating service but I welcome any competition to the market.
- dagurp 5y ago
  The translation service is hosted at Vivaldi
- andris9 5y ago
  For IMAP they seem to use emailjs-imap-client that is written by myself for Whiteout.io a long time ago. IMAP command tags are still prefixed with `W` that would stand for [W]hiteout. Nice to see my old code being useful :D
ACS_Solver 5y ago
I want to offer Vivaldi some praise, I switched to it as my main browser a few years ago, and it's been great. I had to look for a new browser when Firefox (that I had used since the Firebird days) kept breaking my settings and plugins with their updates. After yet another Firefox update I wasn't able to restore the browser to how I want it to be, so I tried Vivaldi. I'm not even a big fan of the original Opera, but love Vivaldi's features such as easy screen splitting between two tabs and one-click actions to disable images or apply certain filters to a page. Picture-in-picture and pop-outs for media are also great, periodic tab reload is occasionally very useful. Ideally I'd like to use a fully FOSS browser, but my patience with Firefox ran out, and Vivaldi is Chromium + custom open-source parts + closed-source UI layer. Good enough for me, though not ideal.
- thefz 5y ago
  To me tab tiling is invaluable. I just wish it had session syncing, that would be great. I use Vivaldi a lot.
  - thunderbong 5y ago
    Vivaldi does have session syncing.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Also Vivaldi is faster.
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    I find this statement a bit puzzling. Vivaldi is the slowest browser I've tried in recent years. The couple times I used it I always went back to Firefox after a few weeks because I couldn't stand the sluggish UI anymore. Maybe it improved by now, but I find it hard to believe it's now supposed to be faster after Firefox' massive performance updates.
    - salmo 5y ago
amyjess 5y ago
Have the Vivaldi developers confirmed whether or not they'll continue supporting Manifestv2? I think I heard something along those lines but I Can't remember where.
traveler01 5y ago
I like Vivaldi but I do enjoy using my main browser also for web development. BUT, they do a browser for power users but couldn't care less with developers since they haven't fixed the broken responsive mode in the developer tools. Gonna keep using Brave...
Theizestooke 5y ago
Does it have the ability to containerize websites, like Firefox does?
amarant 5y ago
Looks pretty good, but I'm a bit sceptical of the translation feature. They introduce it by saying Google has access to everything you translate, so therefore you should instead use their service, which sends the texts you translate to their servers in Iceland. The formulations try really hard not to say "trust us with your data instead of big tech", which seems like an attempt to hide the fact that they do have access to everything you translate, much like Google would have... The only question is who you trust more - Vivaldi or Google?
- 1_player 5y ago
  One thing is for sure. Vivaldi isn't in the ad tech business, or if it were it's not the biggest ad tech business in the world, and does not have any precedent in wanting to know everything I do, write, read, search, talk with to build an ad profile. Who do you trust less with your most personal data - Vivaldi or Google? I think the answer is pretty easy. It's just that, if you're the average person, you're already being spied upon massively by Google and you're trying to figure out if a company orders of magnitude smaller is a credible threat to your data.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  Vivaldi.
- kome 5y ago
  vivaldi :)
FlyingSnake 5y ago
I'm a long time Firefox user and I still use Firefox for personal use. However my workspace is Google Heavy and Google Meet is a 2nd class citizen on FF. I hate chrome, and Vivaldi is the best blink based browser that fills this niche. I just love the tree-style tabs and Vivaldi was the only blink based browser that provided that. I really love it so far, and it's perfect for my use case.
kitd 5y ago
I use Vivaldi regularly for one reason: my company has disabled access to the developer tools on Chrome and FF. With Vivaldi (being Chromium) I have full access again! Just don't tell them I told you ...
- amitport 5y ago
  what was the company's reasoning to disable access to the developer tools on Chrome and FF? why?
  - kitd 5y ago
    I don't have the precise wording to hand but it was along the lines of "security, protecting assets, etc, etc"
- e3bc54b2 5y ago
  My company does this too. Try installing Firefox in a nonstandard location, that fixed it for me. Now I enjoy regex search, unlock origin and tampermonkey and have little more peace of mind.
  - everybodyknows 5y ago
    >regex search Meaning search over within browser window i.e. “Find in Page”?
    - e3bc54b2 5y ago
      No. Find in page is dumb text match. I use an extension that let's me construct full regular expressions to search through the page. Comes very handy from time to time.
shortformblog 5y ago
Since discussions about the browser’s approach to design philosophy and privacy are coming up in this thread, I’ll just flag that I did an interview with Jon von Tetzchner earlier this year where he talked about some of those things, as well as the lineage with Opera: https://tedium.co/2021/02/05/vivaldi-browser-history-profile/ https://tedium.co/2021/02/05/vivaldi-browser-history-profile...
ckotso 5y ago
I've been using Vivaldi as my main/work browser for the last ~1 year. Tab tiling and tab groups have been absolute game changers for my workflow and curbed my objections departing from the firefox camp. It used to feel quite slow with too many open tabs when I started using it, and would improve by hibernating them every now and then (which is built-in functionality). It seems to have improved significantly with recent releases, haven't had to hibernate tabs for quite some time now.
tannhaeuser 5y ago
AFAIK Vivaldi is Webkit/Blink based so it'd be interesting to read a reflection on why the original Vivaldi code base was abandoned, if its abandoning was regretted, and on the state of the Web as a sustainable media format in general.
627467 5y ago
I love the tiling capabilities of Vivaldi, it's been impressing people over videoconference too. I tried to use built in mail and calendar, but unfortunately my (work) life is too dependent on the little integrationa of Google calendar and gmail
hellpirat 5y ago
Is this super app? Oo
barberpole 5y ago
Vivaldi was a great musical genius.
Renaud 5y ago
I switched to Vivaldi from Chrome earlier this year as I was uncomfortable with the level of Google integration in that browser. Vivaldi is based on Chromium and has lots of improvements over Chrome, like gestures out of the box, side panels, lots of clear options. And Chrome extensions work perfectly. I've had no issues so far. The complexity of managing a browser engine that does what everyone expects requires humongous resources so I can understand the move to Chromium. As long as the google bits are removed and the extensions work, it's great to have an alternative to Edge and Chrome. I mostly use Firefox as my daily browser and nothing would make me abandon it but it's nice to be able to segregate your various professional/private persona using different browsers.
- BugWatch 5y ago
  You can always use multiple ("specialized") instances of portable Firefox (with MultipleInstance=true in ini file). That's how I do it, and I've been using portable Firefox versions exclusively for 10+ years, I think.
  - kyoji 5y ago
    You are probably already aware, but there is an official extension that offers this functionality via sand-boxed tabs: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account...
  - Renaud 5y ago
    Thanks for reminding me to try that again. Last time was a couple of years ago and I had some trouble between instances but maybe I didn't do it right.
- ProAm 5y ago
  How are you installing Chrome extensions without signing into Chrome first? I find I cannot install any of them for Vivaldi without signing into Chrome (which sort of defeats the purpose)
- Seirdy 5y ago
rob74 5y ago
One killer feature for Vivaldi Mail would be supporting M$ two-factor authentication. Since my company made Exchange 2FA mandatory, I had to give up Thunderbird and use the Outlook 365 web interface due to lack of alternatives under Linux. That would definitely be in the spirit of giving you an alternative to Big Tech (at least on the client side). But I'm not sure if it's even doable though?!
philonoist 5y ago
If only we had a Vivaldi based on the Firefox.
luke2m 5y ago
Glad to see translation, because I do trust Vivaldi more than Google.
mattowen_uk 5y ago
> As Vivaldi Mail supports IMAP and POP3 And there was me hoping for Exchange-Sync support for Microsoft 365 email integration, to release the local reliance on Outlook 365 which gets worse with every revision :(
- globular-toast 5y ago
  I've been using Thunderbird at every Microsoft infested company I've been at for approaching ten years now. It works fine for email, address book and accepting invitations etc. The only thing I have to use the (awful) web interface for is making appointments, but I rarely have to do that. There may be a way to make it work but I haven't bothered to look.
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  Doesn't Microsoft 365 support POP3? My workplace uses that horrid mess called Microsoft 365, Office 365 or whatever name it has today, and its Outlook, but I can retrieve the emails from GMail connecting via POP3. But I don't know if you're looking for some more advanced functionality (not much of an expert in email, I just did the first thing I found to be able to process my email in a tolerable UI, it worked, so I moved on to more productive things).
  - mattowen_uk 5y ago
    For Mail/Calendar/Contacts/Tasks type syncing, you really need Exchange-Sync. Once you've experienced all three working seamlessly on a mobile phone against Exchange (Online or on-prem) you realise how fragmented other 'Mail' sync systems are.
- Maxburn 5y ago
  Ugh, me too! First thing I checked but no ability to add exchange. Unfortunately my org does not publish exchange as IMAP either.
swiley 5y ago
It's great there are alternative browsers but being closed source and requiring a phone number is worse than Chrome.
- eggman314 5y ago
  Require a phone number?
  - merlinscholz 5y ago
    https://login.vivaldi.net/profile/id/signup https://login.vivaldi.net/profile/id/signup Last line on the page: "Before using Vivaldi Webmail and the blogging platform, we’ll ask you to verify your phone number. That’s it."
    - fpoling 5y ago
      It is otherwise impossible for a small company to provide free email.
      - swiley 5y ago
        What you mean is free email that (supposedly) delivers to hotmail? I could pass out email addresses to everyone on my floor and it wouldn't cost me a dime.
        fpoling 5y ago
        Free email as in the sense of email service like hotmail or gmail, not an email client.
m3kw9 5y ago
“ Simply put, the era of blindly trusting Big Tech is over.”, but why should I trust small tech? How are these privacy features compared with Apple?
- fpoling 5y ago
  It is really hard to subpoena a server in Iceland. Iceland gave asylum to Robert Fischer despite huge press from US to extradite him.
eingaeKaiy8ujie 5y ago
A closed source browser? lol
solmag 5y ago
I would love to use Vivaldi but it is by far the slowest browser I've tried to use.
thayne 5y ago
If Vivaldi were fully open source I would probably use it. But it's not.
niq999 5y ago
Using Vivaldi as my main browser since a few months ago. Tab grouping and tiling is great. The side panel is neat for checking on Skype without installing the app. I didn't experience any slowdown, but not being able to drag and drop files from downloads is a pain in the ass. It's been brought up on the forums and left at that years ago.
0x49d1 5y ago
Using Vivaldi as my main browser for several months now. There are some problems with Google Docs, but other then that almost everything is fine. I really like company's attitude to its users, various researchers agree that they really don't leak what they say they don't. Firefox is superb too, but mobile browser experience is not there yet (I mean the new Android browser). Brave is another option, but I feel that Vivaldi is way more under my control and made "for me", even considering that Brave is open sourced.
apocolyps6 5y ago
I really want to like Vivaldi. It's the only browser (afaik) that supports tabs on the side. Right now I use "Tree Style Tabs" on Firefox with some custom CSS to get rid of the original tab bar. Unfortunately I get a massive delay when fullscreening youtube videos in Vivaldi. The video first maximizes to the left half of my screen, and only then expands to the whole thing. Sadly a dealbreaker. FWIW its a little faster if I have the browser already maximized.
- keithnz 5y ago
  edge supports vertical tabs
  - jjjdjjddddsfsd 5y ago
    I switched from Vivaldi to Edge because unfortunately Vivaldi become unusably slow for me beyond a certain amount of open tabs (hopefully just a bug they'll fix eventually). I miss the little search bar for tabs that Vivaldi shows in the vertical tabs view.
  - vitorsr 5y ago
    To complement: Since as early as October 2020 on testing [1] and as early as January 2021 on stable [2]. [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/vertical-tabs-preview-now-available-in-the-canary-and-dev/m-p/1823751 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/vertical-tab... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-relnote-archive-stable-channel#version-88070550-january-21 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-r...
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    I can't use Edge for one stupid simple reason: Ctrl+Tab can not be made to cycle tabs in most recent use order, only in the order tabs are displayed. It is especially weird considering Alt-Tab in Windows does most recent.
timwis 5y ago
Doesn't backing a chromium-based browser like Vivaldi or Brave push the industry further toward browser monopoly? (or at least in the rendering engine sense, as we once had with IE)
- Seirdy 5y ago
  If you want to use a different engine, there's a plethora of Webkit2gtk-based browsers to choose from. GNOME Web (aka Epiphany) and Eolie are two good options for a basic experience; vimb, Luakit, and Nyxt are more advanced options.
  - timwis 5y ago
    I mean I just use Firefox. Unless you mean you can use those engines within Vivaldi?
    - Seirdy 5y ago
      I assumed the context was alternatives to the "big four", excluding anything Blink-based.
frr149 5y ago
From the post: (...)we offer Vivaldi Translate, a built-in, privacy-friendly translation feature, powered by Lingvanex and hosted by Vivaldi, keeping translations out of the reach of companies like Google or Microsoft. Now I'm supposed to trust Vivaldi instead of Google or MS... Stopped reading right there.
junon 5y ago
I'm not seeing this exact question answered elsewhere, but since Vivaldi is based on Chromium, does it have any code that randomly reaches out to remote servers (including but not limited to Google) aside from, of course, those which are requested by web page content?
- rasz 5y ago
  Almost (1) all of it got removed or has option to disable, altho not always clearly explained (2). (1) it touches Vivaldi server on startup. (2) "Google Service DNS to help resolve navigational errors" equals https://medium.com/cloud-security/google-chrome-dns-security-bypass-9a1e10e02114 https://medium.com/cloud-security/google-chrome-dns-security...
  - junon 5y ago
    Thanks!
alexyz12 5y ago
I wonder how they plan to not become evil? It is explicitly planned or just that they are trying to offer a new alternative to the current evil thats not evil yet? Either one is fine, just wondering out loud.
siproprio 5y ago
I just can't stand the vivaldi UI. It's just too slow. Especially everything tabs feels awful. From new tab, to drag-and-drop.
- rasz 5y ago
  Firefox: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_b4JWi49tKJUfE8oOvx6rzP4wSvytPr9V.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_b4JWi49tKJUfE8oOvx... Opera: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_Rn6fiEoSZpDpNfvzIjLH9EGqhAe9iGgl.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_Rn6fiEoSZpDpNfvzIj... Vivaldi: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1KXF2VcFzD3BIAFVIJKgsBiFvfMedbqp.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1KXF2VcFzD3BIAFVIJ...
  - siproprio 5y ago
    Yep.
    - rasz 5y ago
      The worst part about it is not just that its slow, but how slow it is for _what it is_. Its just a SPAN being dragged thru the list of SPAN elements, You have to be very talented to make that stutter. https://www.phpflow.com/demo/drag_and%20drop_jquery_ui/ https://www.phpflow.com/demo/drag_and%20drop_jquery_ui/
piyush_soni 5y ago
Slightly off topic, but are there any users here who tried both Vivaldi and Brave? Which one did you keep and why?

469 points by 0x49d1 5y ago

I keep an eye on Vivaldi because it might be the one browser that isn't going insane or becoming intolerable in one way or another. I'd probably switch if they'd offer some subscription model so that it's clear what I'm paying for, and that they're not making money off of me any underhanded way.

oblio 5y ago

Vivaldi Mail? That took a while :-D Vivaldi is developed by a team created by the former Opera founder and CEO. Vivaldi kind of tries to re-create the spirit of Opera, but I think it's going to be too hard to do it. For those who didn't use it, Opera was first a paid browser (which limited its reach), then an ad-supported browser (which again limited its reach). It then finally became a free browser but by then it was too late. It had its own, super fast, rendering engine (I forget its name, Presto?). It had a built in email client, feed reader, calendar (unfortunately with no Exchange or Gmail integration), a notes app, a powerful download manager and even a Bitorrent client. And a TON of features and UI flexibility. It was super compact, a marvel of engineering and UX design that managed to pack all those things in a package of about 5MB at the time, and you wouldn't even see or load the extra functionality like the email client if you didn't use it. Unfortunately with HTML5 and the Chrome-ification of the web, it couldn't keep up :-( Vivaldi tries to do the same on top of web techs and web techs just can't handle it. Web techs are almost as flexible but they're really slow and bulky. Still, I wish them luck.

whikhngbu359 5y ago
I believe Opera was the first browsers to introduce tabs.
- _trampeltier 5y ago
  Yes, years before other browsers had tabs.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure Galeon had tabs before Opera, but maybe something had tabs before Galeon.
  - thanatos519 5y ago
    (Galeon had mouse gestures, too!)
  - chucky 5y ago
    According to Wikipedia, Netcaptor was the very first browser to have tabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History However, Opera supported an MDI interface before it supported tabs, and if you count that it may have supported multiple browser windows within one MDI window even earlier, which could be said to be a form of tabs. Everything depends on how you define "tabs", as usual.
    - slightwinder 5y ago
      I thin kyou misread that. Wikipedia says InternetWorks was the first browser with Tabbed Interface, released 1994.
  - Winsaucerer 5y ago
    I loved tabs in Galeon, it's the only browser I remembering having it at the time, but I probably didn't try Opera. I was sad when Galeon went away (or removed tabs? I don't recall) and I couldn't find another browser with tab support for a while. Again, I may have overlooked Opera :)
    - bzzzt 5y ago
      Galeon was also the only usable Linux browser having a native look on Gnome (Epiphany was the other one, but I remember it having more difficulty with a lot of sites). It embedded the Mozilla engine (which was a supported use case back then, before Firefox) but launched a lot faster. Usable on a 200Mhz machine at least.
  - 5y ago
- crummy 5y ago
  It also had mouse gestures, right click drag left to go back, right click... swirl? to reload... felt like I was casting spells!
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    I think that came during the period of Black & White by Lionhead Studios. (which was a milestone in using gestures to cast spells by swirly your mouse around)
    - danielscrubs 5y ago
      They where released within one month of each other.
      - slightwinder 5y ago
        And Opera openly admitted that they copied B&W there, because they considered it a very useful feature. It even came in a sub-version, which at that time was somewhat unusual for such an important feature.
  - joshuaissac 5y ago
    > right click drag left to go back, right click... swirl? to reload I still customise my Chrome and Firefox mouse gestures add-ons to work exactly this way, despite having long forgotten where those conventions originally came from. Other gestures I have, probably also from Opera: DL: Left tab RL: Right tab D: Page Down U: Page Up RLR: Close tab/window
    - AfterShave 5y ago
      Mouse gestures, right click scroll between tabs, closed tab history & current tab history. I thank Opera for showing me the way. Sadly the last two were killed off in Firefox in that last big add-on update. I didn't find anything that works since then.
  - StavrosK 5y ago
- rotten 5y ago
  It also had a built-in pop-up blocker which none of the other browsers at the time had.
- slightwinder 5y ago
  No, it was not. That's a popular myth, but it's wrong. There were other browser with Tabs before opera event tried them. And Operas first attempts wasn't really Tabs in the modern sense. It was just a poor working button-bar for an MDI, which was a bit cumbersome to use. They fixed it two versions later, around the time when the feature gained attention in other browsers and even Mozilla Suit got it's first Extension that became so insanly popular that it was build into Phoenix (later renamend to Firebird, then Firefox) out of the box. Though, Opera tried many things in that area. There never really lost the MDI-Spirit and went with different approached than most other TDI-Implementations. Made it more useful for some, more complicated for others. So for certain specific functions they probablly were the first ones.
littlecranky67 5y ago
Loved Opera back in the day. It had "page specific settings" that would let me allow to set HTTP/Socks5 proxies on a per-page setting - today you cannot even set a proxy anymore without changing your system settings (not browser settings). If anyone asks, I used this heavily to bypass country blocks/redirects on a per-page level and also with privoxy on some privacy invading sites.
- 0ld 5y ago
  > today you cannot even set a proxy anymore without changing your system settings (not browser settings). you can in firefox settings you can also do it in chrome with the cli parameter --proxy-server
  - pantulis 5y ago
    > you can in firefox settings Obviously a remnant from the Netscape codebase. They will fix it.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  foxyproxy does this. i set up a ssh passthrough and routed foxyproxy with only specifed pages to use local proxy which meant they would be routed through the ssh. it worked for what i wanted
  - herjazz 5y ago
    I miss Proxomitron
- mobilio 5y ago
  I still miss Opera 12.16...
- gsich 5y ago
  Firefox has proxy settings. Socks5 is bugged though. Doesn't support user/password authentication.
- nnwright 5y ago
metalliqaz 5y ago
What do you mean "on top of web techs"? Aren't all browsers web techs...??
- hansel_der 5y ago
  'modern' browsers use/incorporate a lot of the tech that is used to build web-sites(-apps). i.e. convergence of content and presentation
- oblio 5y ago
  The Opera UI was built using Qt widgets. So native, C++ code. The Vivaldi UI is built using React, I think. Native UIs are much faster than web UIs, for example.
  - metalliqaz 5y ago
    doesn't this also apply to Firefox?
marban 5y ago
Not to forget Opera Mini which did server-side rendering for mobiles. Results were WAP-like quality and mostly sucked (by nature of device's capabilities back then).
- forty 5y ago
  I disagree. Opera mini allowed me to browse the web almost normally (I was using a Nokia E65) and I never really understood why I regularly see people saying the iPhone brought internet to smartphones or something of the sort.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    I also used Opera on my old Symbian phone. Probably the number of iPhones after two or three years was larger than the number of mobile devices that people actually used to browse the web before the iPhone. Nevertheless where I live (Italy) the number of Android devices were always greater than the number of iPhones. I'm thinking about the Galaxy S and S2 in the very early 2010s and the other flagship phones of the day. So, the iPhone brought the touchscreen to the masses (the iPod too), Android brought the mobile internet.
    - forty 5y ago
      Yes I give them touch screen. I admit I was a touch screen skeptic (the kind of person who became mad when someone would touch a screen so doing that on a regular basis seemed a really bad idea to me ^^) and did not get a phone with a touch screen until much later, when they were basically the only option :)
- jlelse 5y ago
  Opera Mini is still a thing.
  - Ayesh 5y ago
    Yes, I gave it a spin for old times sake. It's now full of ads, sometimes even popping up in lockscreen.
howolduis 5y ago
it forces you to provide a phone number to use it. I'm out... too invasive
grishka 5y ago
> Vivaldi kind of tries to re-create the spirit of Opera, but I think it's going to be too hard to do it. Oh, it's definitely recreating the experience of Opera. You encounter an annoying bug, you report it to their private bug tracker, and then they'll fix it in two years. Maybe. If you're lucky. And you don't get to know its status in the meantime. And the macOS version still feels like an afterthought sometimes. Still better than Chrome and by far better than Safari.
- oblio 5y ago
  I guess I had it good, I was using the Windows and Linux Opera versions. The Windows version was always solid.
  - pentagone 5y ago
    I used it exclusively for about a year (iirc) on Linux and had only some minor crashes. When they switched to Chromium I switched to Firefox and never had a single crash since. (It's not only luck, I disable all the feature-creep I know of in about:config)
    - Ziomislaw 5y ago
      do you possibly have a list of those to share please?
      - pentagone 5y ago
        That list would be very long :D If you have some time you can look through: - all the .enabled entrys in - all the .disabled entrys - https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js
  - grishka 5y ago
    I vividly remember how it took them several months to make Opera display Flash content correctly (at 2x scale instead of a blurry upscaled-after-rasterization mess) on retina displays when I just bought my macbook. Other browsers had it done in a matter of weeks, days if you installed a beta build. And that was 2012, back when flash was an essential part of the web.
mcintyre1994 5y ago
Opera had some ridiculously powerful keyboard shortcuts and performance as well for the time. I used to play this web game years ago and past beginner level the only way to compete was to use Opera because you could use a combination of keyboard shortcuts to send attacks/defences from multiple tabs within milliseconds.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
muyuu 5y ago
it abandoned the Opera engine though, to focus on the UI experience so, technically not very different to Brave although many users are led to believe it kept the former Opera render codebase
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
Just to clarify in case someone's wondering, a browser named Opera still exists and gets updated now, but neither the people behind it nor the underlying technology are the same as in the old Opera this post is referring to. As an old-time classic Opera user since version 5 or so, I do use the current Opera because I find it somewhat better than Chrome (it has more built-in stuff, including mouse gestures, Whatsapp/Telegram support, etc. I hate the barebones browser+extensions model) but unfortunately it's miles behind the old Opera experience. I have also tried Vivaldi, and while it's a worthy effort, I'm sure many people will love it and I recommend trying it, it's missing one of the Opera characteristics I valued the most: Opera had practically zero UI lag/latency, whereas Vivaldi is rather slow, as the parent post says.
- taylodl 5y ago
  As someone who now uses Vivaldi as their daily driver I can vouch that it's a bit slow, especially on older hardware. Obviously it's not intolerable, but it would be nice to see some improvements in that area.
  - rasz 5y ago
    If you ever get curious how can UI be so slow, after all "its just js, js is fast", here is how they handle closing browser Tabs currently: https://www.reddit.com/r/vivaldibrowser/comments/nrasof/fix_for_the_crash_on_update_check_and_two_new/h0mla1d/ https://www.reddit.com/r/vivaldibrowser/comments/nrasof/fix_... tldr: Tab bar is just a DIV full of SPANs, one SPAN per Tab. Pages are in a list of DIVs containing iframes. Switching a Tab is a simple process of moving "active" class from one SPAN to another and changing style of one iframe to "visibility: hidden; z-index: -1;" while another one gets "visibility: inherit; z-index: initial;". So far so ~good. So how does Vivaldi handle Tab close? You would guess closing a Tab would entail - switching iframe visibility away from Tab being closed first - instant visual feedback for the user - removing SPAN representing Tab we want closed - maybe fixing widths of remaining SPANs What actually happens is a horror show normally reserved for second semester CS students trying OOP for the first time. List of all Tabs gets traversed multiple times, most of them rewritten couple of times, everything generating individual DOM changes. 10 Tabs open and you close the first one = ~30 DOM Reflows. 100 Tabs open and you close two in the middle = ~300 DOM Reflows. 100 Tabs open and you close first 10 = ~3000 DOM Reflows. Stuttering UI is the staple of Vivaldi, codebase is full of functions running in linear/polynomial time to the number of Tabs open/Tab position on the list, in places where O(1) is trivial. Vivaldi is a browser that used to Resize contents of every single Tab opened when you resized its window - resizing was slower the more Tabs you had in Tab bar :o, going fullscreen could take 10 seconds.
krisgenre 5y ago
Also, during the days of Symbian OS Opera Mini was the best mobile browser available. I remember logging into my bank account and actually doing a transaction on my Nokia N73 running Opera Mini.
thunderbong 5y ago
I still use Opera 12, by the way. Works fine for about 75% of the web. For the remaining, I use Vivaldi!
- iforgotpassword 5y ago
  Not my experience. I use it out of nostalgia, but only for select sites. Many sites with modern SSL config won't load. Click a random link that lands you on a js-heavy site and the browser will stutter or often crash. Which is impressive because back in the day opera once had the fastest js engine by a mile. Goes to show how far V8 has come. But browsing traditional sites that just have a little bit of js and are mostly static still feel faster to navigate on this 8 year old browser than the most recent chrome.
  - thunderbong 5y ago
    Well, I browse without Javascript, so maybe that's why it works. And I've got a keyboard shortcut to open the current site in Vivaldi as a fallback.
pbsb 5y ago
Kind of off topic, but what do you mean by chrome-ification of the web?
- oblio 5y ago
  Chrome is taking over the web and a ton of features start/are only in Chrome. Youtube had a "bug" which made it 2x slower in Firefox, for example.
  - takeda 5y ago
    Yep, it's the IE thing all over again.
55555 5y ago
I use a browser probably 12 hours per day. Maybe there's enough people willing to pay a dollar or two a month for that to be a possible business model again.
- awful_waffle 5y ago
  This honestly sounds like a great idea. At this point I'd pay money for a browser that was private, fast, and dev-friendly, simply to avoid the moral dilemma of switching from FF to a Chrome clone.
  - todd3834 5y ago
    Is Safari an option for you? (Mac?)
    - kristofferR 5y ago
      Safari is about the least dev friendly browser there is. Their API support is atrocious, especially for web extensions.
      - freediver 5y ago
        Perhaps Orion will be of interest to you (WebKit fork with web extensions support, I am the founder)
        kristofferR 5y ago
        Really interesting project, will check it out!
  - CaptainZapp 5y ago
    What's wrong with Firefox? It's an honest question, since as a user I really love it. Is it the 'dev-friendly', which Firefox lacks?
    - 5y ago
JohnWhigham 5y ago
Forgot to mention that China owns them, so say goodbye to data privacy.
SkyMarshal 5y ago
> It had its own, super fast, rendering engine (I forget its name, Presto?). It had a built in email client, feed reader, calendar (unfortunately with no Exchange or Gmail integration), a notes app, a powerful download manager and even a Bitorrent client. And a TON of features and UI flexibility. And don’t forget its MDI interface [1] which made using all those features a joy and is still today better than all the tab implementations of modern browsers (for power users at least). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface
bookofsand 5y ago
paid => ads => free. How is a 'free browser' supposed to pay its developers?
- ols 5y ago
  They licensed the browser for devices like set-top boxes and similar devices. There was also money coming from Google (for using it as a default search engine). I guess they had also some business model built around Opera Mini and relations with mobile providers.
  - Aa9C4xPz43Gg7k6 5y ago
    Did you say that desktop should be subsidized by non-desktop browsers?
    - ols 5y ago
      I didn't say it should, I just summarized what Opera did.
pjs_ 5y ago
Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. - Jamie Zawinski
qwerty456127 5y ago
> Opera was first a paid browser (which limited its reach) I'd argue that this, in combination with easy availability of pirated serials (and the actual quality of the engine, of course), contributed to Opera popularity because "why use freeware when you can use premium software (which other people supposedly even pay for) for free". I believe this works so if I were going to release a commercial app I would make sure to put some serials on pirate sites. Even today, if you release a new Chromium-based browser, make it paid but easily piratable it probably is going to enjoy more popularity than if you release it for free.
echelon 5y ago
> Unfortunately with HTML5 and the Chrome-ification of the web, it couldn't keep up :-( One of the worst things to happen to the web was for Google to start pushing at a speed and scale only they could keep up with. The web is theirs now.
drdavid 5y ago
The Vivaldi mail thing must have been in the works for a while. Since very early on, they offered an email address at their .net domain. It wasn't integrated or an email client, but they had that aspect setup early on.
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
Opera is owned by China
forgotpwd16 5y ago
>It then finally became a free browser Clarifying it became a freeware browser which even after the end of its life remained closed source. >but by then it was too late It was the third most popular browser in the pre-Chrome era after IE and Firefox.

Vinnl 5y ago

Off-topic, but: does anyone know how Vivaldi is funded? I tried looking for it for a bit, but couldn't find any income streams.

haunter 5y ago
First hit in Google https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
- csabakissi 5y ago
  that link doesn't work: Error establishing a database connection
  - henryackerman 5y ago
    Seems like the website was hugged to death...
  - ivanbakel 5y ago
    You can access the archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20210506194445/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210506194445/https://vivaldi.c... The short version is: they get money from things like search engine deals, which guide Vivaldi users to third-party services.
    - vorticalbox 5y ago
      The ad blocker is also set up to allow ads that support vivaldi by default.
  - oblio 5y ago
    It did work before we killed it. HN (and other news sites) hugged the Vivaldi site to death :-D
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

nik736 5y ago

It's down.

smarx007 5y ago
HN hug :) https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-4-0/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.c...
- mxcrossr 5y ago
  I’m kind of surprised HN could take them down

throw737858 5y ago

I think it follows spirit of old Opera 12 very well. It is even opensource (kind of).

rplnt 5y ago
For true old Opera experience there's Otter. https://otter-browser.org/ https://otter-browser.org/ But it's being developed by a very small community, and probably can't keep up, haven't tried it in a while.

inter_netuser 5y ago

website is down. how much spyware is in their browser? is it fully open sourced?

j_koreth 5y ago
I'm not aware of any spyware in the browser. I believe the source is online but not licensed under a free license (Someone is free to correct me on that).
- chucky 5y ago
  The browser engine, being a Chromium variant, is open-sourced. The source code for the UI is not available under an open source license it seems: https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/privacy/is-vivaldi-open-source/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/privacy/is-vivaldi-open-sou...
  - dagurp 5y ago
    More on the subject https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-browser-open-source/

edu 5y ago

It's down, archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-4-0/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210609074720/https://vivaldi.c...

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

Not going to download it just to find out that they didn't bother supporting Office365.

diveanon 5y ago
Don't blame them, office365 is a pain in the ass to support.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  I know. That's why I wrote the comment. There's honestly very little value in yet another IMAP client. Fixing a little bit the broken ecosystems around Exchange would be a million times more useful to the world.
oblio 5y ago
Talk about entitlement. 1. It's a beta product. 2. It's free. 3. They support IMAP/POP3 so you can make do with that for now.

rplnt 5y ago

I really tried to like Vivaldi, and it could be a good browser, but is so unbearably slow. The whole UI is unresponsive. Opening a new tab can take almost a second. Price for javascript apps I guess. edit for clarification: This was on OSX, on Windows it was OK. Used it for almost a year as a secondary browser, no change, gave up.

andai 5y ago
Do you have an older machine, or is it even slow on new machines? I tried Vivaldi last year on my computer which is about ten years old now. Vivaldi was extremely sluggish (Chrome and Firefox still run fine), I was hoping to come back to it once I upgrade my computer.
- rplnt 5y ago
  It was a relatively new hw, MB Pro 2017. No issues with other browsers.
- hulitu 5y ago
  My experience with an 10 years old computer with win 7 is that firefox is slow and vivaldi is faster. I don't use chrome. On Android vivaldi is much faster than firefox.
zaphirplane 5y ago
Is it based on electron. - drum roll - :)
- neolog 5y ago
  That just means it's based on chromium, which makes sense for a browser.
  - pantulis 5y ago
    But not that much for a new/mail reader -- even 100% native Mailmate sweats with my 50k message GMail archive. While it may work for casual users, I'm not really that convinced it is the killer feature Vivaldi users are expecting.

alichapman 5y ago

Anyone else getting 500s trying to access this?

bitigchi 5y ago

For an open-source recreation of Opera 12, there is Otter: https://otter-browser.org https://otter-browser.org

warpech 5y ago
Thanks for the link! Browsing the source code, I love the author's habit to make a code commit every single day [0]. That looks like a powerful way to move the project forward while avoiding fatigue. https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/commits/170f3627a79e8b3d18d921e2598c97f6017c96b0 https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/commits/170f36...
idoubtit 5y ago
I used Otter as a second browser for some time, but, despite all my empathy from the project, a few years ago I stopped. - Installing and upgrading was a pain on Linux, and compiling was even worse. At first there were no AppImage for it. Then they were created but at first they were half-broken (the whole process of creating an AppImage is hacky and Qt projects were especially hard). It seems the AppImage broke again in 2018. - The web engine comes from Qt. IIRC, it's an old fork of webkit. Many sites were not compatible, and I suspect the situation goes worse with every year. I recommend trying Otter, but don't expect it to replace your everyday browser.
- bitigchi 5y ago
  It's in the process of switching to QtWebEngine, which is the Chromium version.

thanatos519 5y ago

I'm trying Vivaldi again since as an expat I depend on single-click in-browser translation. For me, the killer feature is built-in no-nonsense vertical tabs, something I had in Galeon many years ago because it used the Gtk+ tab widget. I hate hate hate that Chromium cannot do this, because dogma.

warpech 5y ago
FWIW, Microsoft Edge also has vertical tabs.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  Sorry, you lost me at 'Microsoft'.
  - approxim8ion 5y ago
    https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/vivaldi.html https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/vivaldi.html Seems like your bar is low, but not that low.
    - kunagi7 5y ago
      The last update was made in 2018. That's a long time. It would be nice to revisit this now that they've have added more services (Mail, translations, expanded Sync) and see their impact to the browser's privacy.
    - fuzzylightbulb 5y ago
      Got anything more current than 2018?
  - warpech 5y ago
    Perhaps that was to be expected after you wrote that you used to use Galeon.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago

j_koreth 5y ago

I'm surprised it took this long for Vivaldi Mail to come out. I believe it was teased relatively early on in Vivaldi's life although I don't envy the developers that had to work with IMAP. I am glad to see that some love given to RSS in a browser since it's been marginalized in all mainstream browsers. It's frustrating to see a refuge of decentralized media consumption be thrown away considering privacy concerns. I am not the biggest fan of the licensing policy along with the inclusion of a third party translating service but I welcome any competition to the market.

dagurp 5y ago
The translation service is hosted at Vivaldi
andris9 5y ago
For IMAP they seem to use emailjs-imap-client that is written by myself for Whiteout.io a long time ago. IMAP command tags are still prefixed with `W` that would stand for [W]hiteout. Nice to see my old code being useful :D

ACS_Solver 5y ago

I want to offer Vivaldi some praise, I switched to it as my main browser a few years ago, and it's been great. I had to look for a new browser when Firefox (that I had used since the Firebird days) kept breaking my settings and plugins with their updates. After yet another Firefox update I wasn't able to restore the browser to how I want it to be, so I tried Vivaldi. I'm not even a big fan of the original Opera, but love Vivaldi's features such as easy screen splitting between two tabs and one-click actions to disable images or apply certain filters to a page. Picture-in-picture and pop-outs for media are also great, periodic tab reload is occasionally very useful. Ideally I'd like to use a fully FOSS browser, but my patience with Firefox ran out, and Vivaldi is Chromium + custom open-source parts + closed-source UI layer. Good enough for me, though not ideal.

thefz 5y ago
To me tab tiling is invaluable. I just wish it had session syncing, that would be great. I use Vivaldi a lot.
- thunderbong 5y ago
  Vivaldi does have session syncing.
hulitu 5y ago
Also Vivaldi is faster.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  I find this statement a bit puzzling. Vivaldi is the slowest browser I've tried in recent years. The couple times I used it I always went back to Firefox after a few weeks because I couldn't stand the sluggish UI anymore. Maybe it improved by now, but I find it hard to believe it's now supposed to be faster after Firefox' massive performance updates.
  - salmo 5y ago

amyjess 5y ago

Have the Vivaldi developers confirmed whether or not they'll continue supporting Manifestv2? I think I heard something along those lines but I Can't remember where.

traveler01 5y ago

I like Vivaldi but I do enjoy using my main browser also for web development. BUT, they do a browser for power users but couldn't care less with developers since they haven't fixed the broken responsive mode in the developer tools. Gonna keep using Brave...

Theizestooke 5y ago

Does it have the ability to containerize websites, like Firefox does?

amarant 5y ago

Looks pretty good, but I'm a bit sceptical of the translation feature. They introduce it by saying Google has access to everything you translate, so therefore you should instead use their service, which sends the texts you translate to their servers in Iceland. The formulations try really hard not to say "trust us with your data instead of big tech", which seems like an attempt to hide the fact that they do have access to everything you translate, much like Google would have... The only question is who you trust more - Vivaldi or Google?

1_player 5y ago
One thing is for sure. Vivaldi isn't in the ad tech business, or if it were it's not the biggest ad tech business in the world, and does not have any precedent in wanting to know everything I do, write, read, search, talk with to build an ad profile. Who do you trust less with your most personal data - Vivaldi or Google? I think the answer is pretty easy. It's just that, if you're the average person, you're already being spied upon massively by Google and you're trying to figure out if a company orders of magnitude smaller is a credible threat to your data.
thanatos519 5y ago
Vivaldi.
kome 5y ago
vivaldi :)

FlyingSnake 5y ago

I'm a long time Firefox user and I still use Firefox for personal use. However my workspace is Google Heavy and Google Meet is a 2nd class citizen on FF. I hate chrome, and Vivaldi is the best blink based browser that fills this niche. I just love the tree-style tabs and Vivaldi was the only blink based browser that provided that. I really love it so far, and it's perfect for my use case.

kitd 5y ago

I use Vivaldi regularly for one reason: my company has disabled access to the developer tools on Chrome and FF. With Vivaldi (being Chromium) I have full access again! Just don't tell them I told you ...

amitport 5y ago
what was the company's reasoning to disable access to the developer tools on Chrome and FF? why?
- kitd 5y ago
  I don't have the precise wording to hand but it was along the lines of "security, protecting assets, etc, etc"
e3bc54b2 5y ago
My company does this too. Try installing Firefox in a nonstandard location, that fixed it for me. Now I enjoy regex search, unlock origin and tampermonkey and have little more peace of mind.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  >regex search Meaning search over within browser window i.e. “Find in Page”?
  - e3bc54b2 5y ago
    No. Find in page is dumb text match. I use an extension that let's me construct full regular expressions to search through the page. Comes very handy from time to time.

shortformblog 5y ago

Since discussions about the browser’s approach to design philosophy and privacy are coming up in this thread, I’ll just flag that I did an interview with Jon von Tetzchner earlier this year where he talked about some of those things, as well as the lineage with Opera: https://tedium.co/2021/02/05/vivaldi-browser-history-profile/ https://tedium.co/2021/02/05/vivaldi-browser-history-profile...

ckotso 5y ago

I've been using Vivaldi as my main/work browser for the last ~1 year. Tab tiling and tab groups have been absolute game changers for my workflow and curbed my objections departing from the firefox camp. It used to feel quite slow with too many open tabs when I started using it, and would improve by hibernating them every now and then (which is built-in functionality). It seems to have improved significantly with recent releases, haven't had to hibernate tabs for quite some time now.

tannhaeuser 5y ago

AFAIK Vivaldi is Webkit/Blink based so it'd be interesting to read a reflection on why the original Vivaldi code base was abandoned, if its abandoning was regretted, and on the state of the Web as a sustainable media format in general.

627467 5y ago

I love the tiling capabilities of Vivaldi, it's been impressing people over videoconference too. I tried to use built in mail and calendar, but unfortunately my (work) life is too dependent on the little integrationa of Google calendar and gmail

hellpirat 5y ago

Is this super app? Oo

barberpole 5y ago

Vivaldi was a great musical genius.

Renaud 5y ago

I switched to Vivaldi from Chrome earlier this year as I was uncomfortable with the level of Google integration in that browser. Vivaldi is based on Chromium and has lots of improvements over Chrome, like gestures out of the box, side panels, lots of clear options. And Chrome extensions work perfectly. I've had no issues so far. The complexity of managing a browser engine that does what everyone expects requires humongous resources so I can understand the move to Chromium. As long as the google bits are removed and the extensions work, it's great to have an alternative to Edge and Chrome. I mostly use Firefox as my daily browser and nothing would make me abandon it but it's nice to be able to segregate your various professional/private persona using different browsers.

BugWatch 5y ago
You can always use multiple ("specialized") instances of portable Firefox (with MultipleInstance=true in ini file). That's how I do it, and I've been using portable Firefox versions exclusively for 10+ years, I think.
- kyoji 5y ago
  You are probably already aware, but there is an official extension that offers this functionality via sand-boxed tabs: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account...
- Renaud 5y ago
  Thanks for reminding me to try that again. Last time was a couple of years ago and I had some trouble between instances but maybe I didn't do it right.
ProAm 5y ago
How are you installing Chrome extensions without signing into Chrome first? I find I cannot install any of them for Vivaldi without signing into Chrome (which sort of defeats the purpose)
Seirdy 5y ago

rob74 5y ago

One killer feature for Vivaldi Mail would be supporting M$ two-factor authentication. Since my company made Exchange 2FA mandatory, I had to give up Thunderbird and use the Outlook 365 web interface due to lack of alternatives under Linux. That would definitely be in the spirit of giving you an alternative to Big Tech (at least on the client side). But I'm not sure if it's even doable though?!

philonoist 5y ago

If only we had a Vivaldi based on the Firefox.

luke2m 5y ago

Glad to see translation, because I do trust Vivaldi more than Google.

mattowen_uk 5y ago

> As Vivaldi Mail supports IMAP and POP3 And there was me hoping for Exchange-Sync support for Microsoft 365 email integration, to release the local reliance on Outlook 365 which gets worse with every revision :(

globular-toast 5y ago
I've been using Thunderbird at every Microsoft infested company I've been at for approaching ten years now. It works fine for email, address book and accepting invitations etc. The only thing I have to use the (awful) web interface for is making appointments, but I rarely have to do that. There may be a way to make it work but I haven't bothered to look.
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
Doesn't Microsoft 365 support POP3? My workplace uses that horrid mess called Microsoft 365, Office 365 or whatever name it has today, and its Outlook, but I can retrieve the emails from GMail connecting via POP3. But I don't know if you're looking for some more advanced functionality (not much of an expert in email, I just did the first thing I found to be able to process my email in a tolerable UI, it worked, so I moved on to more productive things).
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  For Mail/Calendar/Contacts/Tasks type syncing, you really need Exchange-Sync. Once you've experienced all three working seamlessly on a mobile phone against Exchange (Online or on-prem) you realise how fragmented other 'Mail' sync systems are.
Maxburn 5y ago
Ugh, me too! First thing I checked but no ability to add exchange. Unfortunately my org does not publish exchange as IMAP either.

swiley 5y ago

It's great there are alternative browsers but being closed source and requiring a phone number is worse than Chrome.

eggman314 5y ago
Require a phone number?
- merlinscholz 5y ago
  https://login.vivaldi.net/profile/id/signup https://login.vivaldi.net/profile/id/signup Last line on the page: "Before using Vivaldi Webmail and the blogging platform, we’ll ask you to verify your phone number. That’s it."
  - fpoling 5y ago
    It is otherwise impossible for a small company to provide free email.
    - swiley 5y ago
      What you mean is free email that (supposedly) delivers to hotmail? I could pass out email addresses to everyone on my floor and it wouldn't cost me a dime.
      - fpoling 5y ago
        Free email as in the sense of email service like hotmail or gmail, not an email client.

m3kw9 5y ago

“ Simply put, the era of blindly trusting Big Tech is over.”, but why should I trust small tech? How are these privacy features compared with Apple?

fpoling 5y ago
It is really hard to subpoena a server in Iceland. Iceland gave asylum to Robert Fischer despite huge press from US to extradite him.

eingaeKaiy8ujie 5y ago

A closed source browser? lol

solmag 5y ago

I would love to use Vivaldi but it is by far the slowest browser I've tried to use.

thayne 5y ago

If Vivaldi were fully open source I would probably use it. But it's not.

niq999 5y ago

Using Vivaldi as my main browser since a few months ago. Tab grouping and tiling is great. The side panel is neat for checking on Skype without installing the app. I didn't experience any slowdown, but not being able to drag and drop files from downloads is a pain in the ass. It's been brought up on the forums and left at that years ago.

0x49d1 5y ago

Using Vivaldi as my main browser for several months now. There are some problems with Google Docs, but other then that almost everything is fine. I really like company's attitude to its users, various researchers agree that they really don't leak what they say they don't. Firefox is superb too, but mobile browser experience is not there yet (I mean the new Android browser). Brave is another option, but I feel that Vivaldi is way more under my control and made "for me", even considering that Brave is open sourced.

apocolyps6 5y ago

I really want to like Vivaldi. It's the only browser (afaik) that supports tabs on the side. Right now I use "Tree Style Tabs" on Firefox with some custom CSS to get rid of the original tab bar. Unfortunately I get a massive delay when fullscreening youtube videos in Vivaldi. The video first maximizes to the left half of my screen, and only then expands to the whole thing. Sadly a dealbreaker. FWIW its a little faster if I have the browser already maximized.

keithnz 5y ago
edge supports vertical tabs
- jjjdjjddddsfsd 5y ago
  I switched from Vivaldi to Edge because unfortunately Vivaldi become unusably slow for me beyond a certain amount of open tabs (hopefully just a bug they'll fix eventually). I miss the little search bar for tabs that Vivaldi shows in the vertical tabs view.
- vitorsr 5y ago
  To complement: Since as early as October 2020 on testing [1] and as early as January 2021 on stable [2]. [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/vertical-tabs-preview-now-available-in-the-canary-and-dev/m-p/1823751 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/vertical-tab... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-relnote-archive-stable-channel#version-88070550-january-21 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-r...
- lostmsu 5y ago
  I can't use Edge for one stupid simple reason: Ctrl+Tab can not be made to cycle tabs in most recent use order, only in the order tabs are displayed. It is especially weird considering Alt-Tab in Windows does most recent.

timwis 5y ago

Doesn't backing a chromium-based browser like Vivaldi or Brave push the industry further toward browser monopoly? (or at least in the rendering engine sense, as we once had with IE)

Seirdy 5y ago
If you want to use a different engine, there's a plethora of Webkit2gtk-based browsers to choose from. GNOME Web (aka Epiphany) and Eolie are two good options for a basic experience; vimb, Luakit, and Nyxt are more advanced options.
- timwis 5y ago
  I mean I just use Firefox. Unless you mean you can use those engines within Vivaldi?
  - Seirdy 5y ago
    I assumed the context was alternatives to the "big four", excluding anything Blink-based.

frr149 5y ago

From the post: (...)we offer Vivaldi Translate, a built-in, privacy-friendly translation feature, powered by Lingvanex and hosted by Vivaldi, keeping translations out of the reach of companies like Google or Microsoft. Now I'm supposed to trust Vivaldi instead of Google or MS... Stopped reading right there.

junon 5y ago

I'm not seeing this exact question answered elsewhere, but since Vivaldi is based on Chromium, does it have any code that randomly reaches out to remote servers (including but not limited to Google) aside from, of course, those which are requested by web page content?

rasz 5y ago
Almost (1) all of it got removed or has option to disable, altho not always clearly explained (2). (1) it touches Vivaldi server on startup. (2) "Google Service DNS to help resolve navigational errors" equals https://medium.com/cloud-security/google-chrome-dns-security-bypass-9a1e10e02114 https://medium.com/cloud-security/google-chrome-dns-security...
- junon 5y ago
  Thanks!

alexyz12 5y ago

I wonder how they plan to not become evil? It is explicitly planned or just that they are trying to offer a new alternative to the current evil thats not evil yet? Either one is fine, just wondering out loud.

siproprio 5y ago

I just can't stand the vivaldi UI. It's just too slow. Especially everything tabs feels awful. From new tab, to drag-and-drop.

rasz 5y ago
Firefox: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_b4JWi49tKJUfE8oOvx6rzP4wSvytPr9V.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_b4JWi49tKJUfE8oOvx... Opera: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_Rn6fiEoSZpDpNfvzIjLH9EGqhAe9iGgl.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_Rn6fiEoSZpDpNfvzIj... Vivaldi: https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1KXF2VcFzD3BIAFVIJKgsBiFvfMedbqp.gif https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1KXF2VcFzD3BIAFVIJ...
- siproprio 5y ago
  Yep.
  - rasz 5y ago
    The worst part about it is not just that its slow, but how slow it is for _what it is_. Its just a SPAN being dragged thru the list of SPAN elements, You have to be very talented to make that stutter. https://www.phpflow.com/demo/drag_and%20drop_jquery_ui/ https://www.phpflow.com/demo/drag_and%20drop_jquery_ui/

piyush_soni 5y ago

Slightly off topic, but are there any users here who tried both Vivaldi and Brave? Which one did you keep and why?