4 ms·

How is Google a monopoly? Serious question.

tyingq 5y ago
Senator Herb Kohl: But you do recognize that in the words that are used and antitrust kind of oversight, your market share constitutes monopoly, dominant -- special power dominant for a monopoly firm. You recognize you're in that area? Eric Shmidt: I would agree, sir, that we’re in that area....I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of monopoly findings is this is a judicial process. From: https://www.businessinsider.com/is-google-a-monopoly-were-in-that-area-admits-schmidt-2011-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/is-google-a-monopoly-were-in... Also, the FTC's initial memo from 2012 that somebody higher up in the food chain quashed is pretty interesting: http://graphics.wsj.com/google-ftc-report/ http://graphics.wsj.com/google-ftc-report/ In short, dominant market share in web search. Though I think you could argue other things, like dominance in affordable smart phones. Android is effectively a monopoly for people that can't afford an iPhone.
- bananabreakfast 5y ago
  Google would argue that web search is not their market. They are in the business of online advertising in which they most definitely do not have dominant market share.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    I can't say for sure whether they have a monopoly, but it's interesting that Eric Schmidt can't either.
  - croes 5y ago
    Yeah, that's why to google something means advertising and not searching for something on the internet. No, wait ...
  - sneak 5y ago
    Google also doesn't have a monopoly on search.
- minsc__and__boo 5y ago
  Being popular != Monopoly Having Market Share Dominance != Monopoly Being a monopoly means having sole control over the supply of a market (conversely, Monopsony is demand). When people say Bing, Baidu, DDG, Yahoo, DDG, etc. are all a click a way, that means Google does not control the market supply. Just because the majority of people choose to use something on an open market doesn't mean that thing has a monopoly.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Schmidt seems concerned they are in that territory. Also, the document I linked to, presumably written by people with deep expertise on the topic, has several relevant sections. One excerpt: === A. GOOGLE HAS MONOPOLY POWER IN RELEVANT MARKETS A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level. [M]onopoly power may be inferred from a firm's possesion of a dominant share of a relevant market that is protected by entry barriers. Google has monopoly power in one or more properly defined markets...Staff has identified three relevant antitrust markets... === I think it's at least fair to say that some people with expertise in the space feel like Google could have monopoly control over one or more markets.
    - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
      Eric Schmidt is not Google. Also, a half-redacted document written by an anonymous person that was accidentally released almost a decade ago does not change the definition of a monopoly. Yes, you can assume that it's written by someone who knows what they're talking about, just as much as you can also presume they were wrong because it was squashed. That's a moot argument. None of that changes the fact that being popular does not make something a monopoly.
      - tyingq 5y ago
        "popular does not make something a monopoly" I didn't say that, though, or anything like that. I did mention market share dominance. But that's often related to things like "A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level.".
tomcooks 5y ago
Try to get people to use your software, or read your books, or buy your merchandise, etc. without using Google. They own the highway, the restaurants along the way, the billboards and even the car most people drive.
aetherson 5y ago
Google controls the vast majority of the web search market. More than 90%. What exactly a monopoly constitutes is something that people can disagree about, but "has 90% market share" is not by any means a crazy definition of a monopoly.
- yeetman21 5y ago
  Google doesnt make money of web searches, it makes money off ads, which it competes with fb and others for
  - loup-vaillant 5y ago
    Maybe a lawyer can say that with a straight face, but I'm a human being. Google ad revenues mostly come from 3 services: Gmail, which holds a disproportionate share of all email for what started out as a federated network. YouTube, which basically holds a monopoly on video sharing. And Google search, which basically holds a monopoly on regular web searches. I count at least 2 monopolies here, both held by Alphabet. The fact that Facebook is able to make advertisement in some other part of the web is immaterial, the same way TV ads are immaterial.
- bananabreakfast 5y ago
  But market share of what? No one pays for web search so that's not really a market. Facebook has 90%+ market share of social media. Do they have a monopoly? GitHub has a 90%+ market share of open source code hosting. Do they have a monopoly?
  - cpu_architect 5y ago
    Markets are not necessarily based on money; they are about exchange. In the web search market, users exchange their attention for search results. I don’t know whether this kind of market dominance factors into the legal determination of monopoly, but conceptually I think it makes sense to say that Google has a monopoly in the web search market.
  - anders_p 5y ago
lottin 5y ago
Google is not a monopoly, but it has enough market power to be a reason for concern.
- minsc__and__boo 5y ago
  Anti trust laws are written to protect consumers, not inferior competitors.
  - ping_pong 5y ago
    Yes. And Google is engaging in monopolistic behavior by getting rid of any semblance of customer service. This is a direct result of their monopoly because businesses and customers have no viable alternative. So they can save billions by cutting customer support to near zero. That's the same as raising prices with impunity.
    - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
      Poor customer service is not monopolistic behavior. If consumers preferred a search engine with good customer service, they would use the search engine with better customer service instead.

Senator Herb Kohl: But you do recognize that in the words that are used and antitrust kind of oversight, your market share constitutes monopoly, dominant -- special power dominant for a monopoly firm. You recognize you're in that area? Eric Shmidt: I would agree, sir, that we’re in that area....I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of monopoly findings is this is a judicial process. From: https://www.businessinsider.com/is-google-a-monopoly-were-in-that-area-admits-schmidt-2011-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/is-google-a-monopoly-were-in... Also, the FTC's initial memo from 2012 that somebody higher up in the food chain quashed is pretty interesting: http://graphics.wsj.com/google-ftc-report/ http://graphics.wsj.com/google-ftc-report/ In short, dominant market share in web search. Though I think you could argue other things, like dominance in affordable smart phones. Android is effectively a monopoly for people that can't afford an iPhone.

bananabreakfast 5y ago
Google would argue that web search is not their market. They are in the business of online advertising in which they most definitely do not have dominant market share.
- tyingq 5y ago
  I can't say for sure whether they have a monopoly, but it's interesting that Eric Schmidt can't either.
- croes 5y ago
  Yeah, that's why to google something means advertising and not searching for something on the internet. No, wait ...
- sneak 5y ago
  Google also doesn't have a monopoly on search.
minsc__and__boo 5y ago
Being popular != Monopoly Having Market Share Dominance != Monopoly Being a monopoly means having sole control over the supply of a market (conversely, Monopsony is demand). When people say Bing, Baidu, DDG, Yahoo, DDG, etc. are all a click a way, that means Google does not control the market supply. Just because the majority of people choose to use something on an open market doesn't mean that thing has a monopoly.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Schmidt seems concerned they are in that territory. Also, the document I linked to, presumably written by people with deep expertise on the topic, has several relevant sections. One excerpt: === A. GOOGLE HAS MONOPOLY POWER IN RELEVANT MARKETS A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level. [M]onopoly power may be inferred from a firm's possesion of a dominant share of a relevant market that is protected by entry barriers. Google has monopoly power in one or more properly defined markets...Staff has identified three relevant antitrust markets... === I think it's at least fair to say that some people with expertise in the space feel like Google could have monopoly control over one or more markets.
  - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
    Eric Schmidt is not Google. Also, a half-redacted document written by an anonymous person that was accidentally released almost a decade ago does not change the definition of a monopoly. Yes, you can assume that it's written by someone who knows what they're talking about, just as much as you can also presume they were wrong because it was squashed. That's a moot argument. None of that changes the fact that being popular does not make something a monopoly.
    - tyingq 5y ago
      "popular does not make something a monopoly" I didn't say that, though, or anything like that. I did mention market share dominance. But that's often related to things like "A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level.".

tomcooks 5y ago

Try to get people to use your software, or read your books, or buy your merchandise, etc. without using Google. They own the highway, the restaurants along the way, the billboards and even the car most people drive.

aetherson 5y ago

Google controls the vast majority of the web search market. More than 90%. What exactly a monopoly constitutes is something that people can disagree about, but "has 90% market share" is not by any means a crazy definition of a monopoly.

yeetman21 5y ago
Google doesnt make money of web searches, it makes money off ads, which it competes with fb and others for
- loup-vaillant 5y ago
  Maybe a lawyer can say that with a straight face, but I'm a human being. Google ad revenues mostly come from 3 services: Gmail, which holds a disproportionate share of all email for what started out as a federated network. YouTube, which basically holds a monopoly on video sharing. And Google search, which basically holds a monopoly on regular web searches. I count at least 2 monopolies here, both held by Alphabet. The fact that Facebook is able to make advertisement in some other part of the web is immaterial, the same way TV ads are immaterial.
bananabreakfast 5y ago
But market share of what? No one pays for web search so that's not really a market. Facebook has 90%+ market share of social media. Do they have a monopoly? GitHub has a 90%+ market share of open source code hosting. Do they have a monopoly?
- cpu_architect 5y ago
  Markets are not necessarily based on money; they are about exchange. In the web search market, users exchange their attention for search results. I don’t know whether this kind of market dominance factors into the legal determination of monopoly, but conceptually I think it makes sense to say that Google has a monopoly in the web search market.
- anders_p 5y ago

lottin 5y ago

Google is not a monopoly, but it has enough market power to be a reason for concern.

minsc__and__boo 5y ago
Anti trust laws are written to protect consumers, not inferior competitors.
- ping_pong 5y ago
  Yes. And Google is engaging in monopolistic behavior by getting rid of any semblance of customer service. This is a direct result of their monopoly because businesses and customers have no viable alternative. So they can save billions by cutting customer support to near zero. That's the same as raising prices with impunity.
  - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
    Poor customer service is not monopolistic behavior. If consumers preferred a search engine with good customer service, they would use the search engine with better customer service instead.