6 ms·

I find it amusing how all the news reports gloss over the fact that the FBI somehow got access to the wallet’s private key. I’m also wondering why the hackers

I find it amusing how all the news reports gloss over the fact that the FBI somehow got access to the wallet’s private key. I’m also wondering why the hackers didn’t request payment in a currency that’s more difficult to trace.

imglorp 5y ago
People should take care to distinguish pseudo-anonymous chains like btc from anonymous ones like zerocoin. As soon as the ransom payment was transacted, the whole world could watch the chain and see the next step in its travel.
- api 5y ago
  "Wouldn't it be great if we could get criminals to use a 100% public transparent ledger???"
  - Sparkyte 5y ago
    I know right?
  - jayd16 5y ago
    --The FBI in 2008, probably (but really the FBI since the Bank Secrecy Act and before)
- Sparkyte 5y ago
  Bitcoin is literally about tracing transactions... criminal IQ smol.
derefr 5y ago
I think it's that BTC is easier to get victims to buy without oversight. There are Bitcoin ATMs. Buying Bitcoin from an ATM is like sending money via Western Union, but without the teller there to spot someone looking like they're under duress. As for anonymity on the receiving end: the BTC can always just be exchanged for a more anonymous currency like Monero. You might think that'd require the criminal to KYC to a [centralized] exchange, but there are decentralized exchanges (i.e. DEXes — on-chain, crypto-for-crypto exchanges with no support for fiat deposit/withdrawal), and these have no need for KYC, since they don't touch the real banking system.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  KYC?
  - vmception 5y ago
    Client identification information that banks and brokerages are required to collect.
  - derefr 5y ago
    Know Your Customer (KYC) — a compliance process required by Anti-Money Laundering (AML) laws, involving getting a unique government-issued identification document or other similar "identity proof" from your customers, before allowing them to use your service. Any service that takes deposits or processes payments in certain countries is required to follow those countries' KYC/AML regulations. The actual AML laws are mostly about noticing when a given person has processed $10k or more through your service in a single day. But note that that's "person", not "account." You have to de-anonymize your accounts, in order to associate them with people, in order to obey the law. The conventional KYC "compliance" measures — gathering ID documents et al — are actually not part of the law itself, but rather are industry best-practices for following the AML laws. The KYC process gives service-providers the information needed to restrict each person to having only a single account; and therefore allow service-providers to treat each account as a person under the letter of the AML laws.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
lottin 5y ago
> I’m also wondering why the hackers didn’t request payment in a currency that’s more difficult to trace. Because they need to cash out somehow? Being crypto-currency rich doesn't mean much if you're unable to exchange the crypto-currency for real money.
- vmception 5y ago
  No not really People are content with crypto They can invest, buy computer games, hardware and acquire general goods and services There is no “I want to buy this flashy house/yacht how do I get crypto out” Its easy to launder and easy to use without doing so, but also easy to launder whenever they get around to it These guys didnt
  - lottin 5y ago
    In the real world? No, you can't buy a house or a yacht with crypto. You can't even buy groceries or pay at a restaurant or at a petrol station.
    - vmception 5y ago
      I’m saying two things: 1) These arent problems for ransomware hackers because they arent goals for ransomware hackers 2) even if these were goals for ransomware hackers these aren't problems either It requires a special hubris to really think people that earn crypto want fiat. Just like people assume people that use Monero want clean bitcoin, its an absurdity that doesnt even consider that many just want and keep Monero. Its the same for fiat. You would be more interested in discussing number 2 because I still say converting illicit funds to fiat isnt an unsolved or even difficult problem. But its so low on the list of priorities for this user story that its not really worth splitting hairs over. Ransomware hackers dont have an issue exchanging time for food and shelter, they are able to just accumulate and play in the crypto ecosystem which is what they really want to do already, with more. To many, its like someone stealing gold bars. Sure you go melt down an ingot or two eventually, but you’re really just hoarding the gold the sake of hoarding the gold. Crypto has the additional benefit of being internationally liquid for other digital assets and digital services instantly.
mpg33 5y ago
Slightly suspicious. Them wanting to get a message out there that criminals won't get away with far exceeds probability of them retrieving crypto imo.
bob33212 5y ago
If you do a memory dump on a hypervisor you can get all the memory of the VMs on that server including keys as they are being used.
devonbleak 5y ago
Yeah the "follow the money" line from the FBI felt like a red herring. Yes you can follow the money through the addresses but it's not like they include routing numbers to tell you which bank manager to go convince to cooperate. Feels like Darkside got sloppy and left their private key unencrypted on their payment server which got seized/compromised.
t0mbstone 5y ago
I still don't believe the FBI actually seized the bitcoin. We have zero proof of anything. We are just supposed to take the FBI on their word? There is a huge motivation for them to lie about seizing the BTC, in an effort to discourage other copycat crypto criminals.

imglorp 5y ago

People should take care to distinguish pseudo-anonymous chains like btc from anonymous ones like zerocoin. As soon as the ransom payment was transacted, the whole world could watch the chain and see the next step in its travel.

api 5y ago
"Wouldn't it be great if we could get criminals to use a 100% public transparent ledger???"
- Sparkyte 5y ago
  I know right?
- jayd16 5y ago
  --The FBI in 2008, probably (but really the FBI since the Bank Secrecy Act and before)
Sparkyte 5y ago
Bitcoin is literally about tracing transactions... criminal IQ smol.

derefr 5y ago

I think it's that BTC is easier to get victims to buy without oversight. There are Bitcoin ATMs. Buying Bitcoin from an ATM is like sending money via Western Union, but without the teller there to spot someone looking like they're under duress. As for anonymity on the receiving end: the BTC can always just be exchanged for a more anonymous currency like Monero. You might think that'd require the criminal to KYC to a [centralized] exchange, but there are decentralized exchanges (i.e. DEXes — on-chain, crypto-for-crypto exchanges with no support for fiat deposit/withdrawal), and these have no need for KYC, since they don't touch the real banking system.

throwaway894345 5y ago
KYC?
- vmception 5y ago
  Client identification information that banks and brokerages are required to collect.
- derefr 5y ago
  Know Your Customer (KYC) — a compliance process required by Anti-Money Laundering (AML) laws, involving getting a unique government-issued identification document or other similar "identity proof" from your customers, before allowing them to use your service. Any service that takes deposits or processes payments in certain countries is required to follow those countries' KYC/AML regulations. The actual AML laws are mostly about noticing when a given person has processed $10k or more through your service in a single day. But note that that's "person", not "account." You have to de-anonymize your accounts, in order to associate them with people, in order to obey the law. The conventional KYC "compliance" measures — gathering ID documents et al — are actually not part of the law itself, but rather are industry best-practices for following the AML laws. The KYC process gives service-providers the information needed to restrict each person to having only a single account; and therefore allow service-providers to treat each account as a person under the letter of the AML laws.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

lottin 5y ago

> I’m also wondering why the hackers didn’t request payment in a currency that’s more difficult to trace. Because they need to cash out somehow? Being crypto-currency rich doesn't mean much if you're unable to exchange the crypto-currency for real money.

vmception 5y ago
No not really People are content with crypto They can invest, buy computer games, hardware and acquire general goods and services There is no “I want to buy this flashy house/yacht how do I get crypto out” Its easy to launder and easy to use without doing so, but also easy to launder whenever they get around to it These guys didnt
- lottin 5y ago
  In the real world? No, you can't buy a house or a yacht with crypto. You can't even buy groceries or pay at a restaurant or at a petrol station.
  - vmception 5y ago
    I’m saying two things: 1) These arent problems for ransomware hackers because they arent goals for ransomware hackers 2) even if these were goals for ransomware hackers these aren't problems either It requires a special hubris to really think people that earn crypto want fiat. Just like people assume people that use Monero want clean bitcoin, its an absurdity that doesnt even consider that many just want and keep Monero. Its the same for fiat. You would be more interested in discussing number 2 because I still say converting illicit funds to fiat isnt an unsolved or even difficult problem. But its so low on the list of priorities for this user story that its not really worth splitting hairs over. Ransomware hackers dont have an issue exchanging time for food and shelter, they are able to just accumulate and play in the crypto ecosystem which is what they really want to do already, with more. To many, its like someone stealing gold bars. Sure you go melt down an ingot or two eventually, but you’re really just hoarding the gold the sake of hoarding the gold. Crypto has the additional benefit of being internationally liquid for other digital assets and digital services instantly.

mpg33 5y ago

Slightly suspicious. Them wanting to get a message out there that criminals won't get away with far exceeds probability of them retrieving crypto imo.

bob33212 5y ago

If you do a memory dump on a hypervisor you can get all the memory of the VMs on that server including keys as they are being used.

devonbleak 5y ago

Yeah the "follow the money" line from the FBI felt like a red herring. Yes you can follow the money through the addresses but it's not like they include routing numbers to tell you which bank manager to go convince to cooperate. Feels like Darkside got sloppy and left their private key unencrypted on their payment server which got seized/compromised.

t0mbstone 5y ago

I still don't believe the FBI actually seized the bitcoin. We have zero proof of anything. We are just supposed to take the FBI on their word? There is a huge motivation for them to lie about seizing the BTC, in an effort to discourage other copycat crypto criminals.