4 ms·

I've been reading a lot about these "encrypted phones recently". What really shocks me is how in the last years police has been going after operators of such se

by janmo 5y ago

I've been reading a lot about these "encrypted phones recently". What really shocks me is how in the last years police has been going after operators of such services under the premise that they would help criminals. - Sky ECC (Shutdown, owner is facing criminal charges) - Phantom Secure (Shutdown and owner got 9 years in prison) - Encrochat ("Hacked" by french police) So it seems like those "Encrypted phones" were very effective for Law Enforcement to put such an effort to go after them. I think that criminal organizations will now rely on a do it yourself technique. Not buying phones online which is a very bad idea as law enforcement could just trap the phones at the postal facility, something they already do. Going to an old fashion phone retailer, then removing the camera and GPS module yourself and installing some encrypted open source software. Probably they are also going to fake messages. For 2 purposes: - Talk about a fake huge drug deliveries or an imminent mass shooting to verify if the network has been compromised, I am pretty sure police has no choice other than to act in such a situation. - This could be used as a strategy defense, if some messages turn out to be fake, then they can use plausible deniability on the others. And perhaps even claim police has faked them.

Thorentis 5y ago
> Talk about a fake huge drug deliveries or an imminent mass shooting to verify if the network has been compromised Surprised this wasn't done more. It's the classic tactic you see in the movies: give false intel to the suspected mole and see if they snitch on you.
chii 5y ago
> I am pretty sure police has no choice other than to act in such a situation. if the crying wolf method worked, terrorists would have a much easier time executing their plots.
xwolfi 5y ago
It s not that they were so effective that police forces got scared of them, it's that the ratio criminals vs normal users is so high that it's a no brainer to spend a few millions on hacking/infiltrating them to collect a huge reward. Whatsapp or Telegram which your grandma uses would be very low reward compared to amount of conversations to parse.
- janmo 5y ago
  Makes me wonder if those aren't already compromised.
  - sfifs 5y ago
    WhatsApp is trivially compromised to law enforcement already if you have backups setup which most people have for message recovery and switching phones. The backup is not encrypted with a private key.
specialist 5y ago
> I think that criminal organizations will now rely on a do it yourself technique. Ya, acknowledging the role of compromised encryption feels like burning their source. Speculation: Churchhill chose to let Coventry get bombed rather than disclose that German encryption had been cracked. Wouldn't the long game be to allow criminals to believe their communications remain secure, for law enforcement to do parallel construction for their cases? I can't imagine the calculus that goes into these decisions.
grumblenum 5y ago
>imminent mass shooting may prompt interdiction Pulse night club comes to mind as a counterpoint. A lot of people died to keep an informant happy. I think a more cynical outlook on law enforcement is appropriate.

by janmo 5y ago

Thorentis 5y ago

> Talk about a fake huge drug deliveries or an imminent mass shooting to verify if the network has been compromised Surprised this wasn't done more. It's the classic tactic you see in the movies: give false intel to the suspected mole and see if they snitch on you.

chii 5y ago

> I am pretty sure police has no choice other than to act in such a situation. if the crying wolf method worked, terrorists would have a much easier time executing their plots.

xwolfi 5y ago

It s not that they were so effective that police forces got scared of them, it's that the ratio criminals vs normal users is so high that it's a no brainer to spend a few millions on hacking/infiltrating them to collect a huge reward. Whatsapp or Telegram which your grandma uses would be very low reward compared to amount of conversations to parse.

janmo 5y ago
Makes me wonder if those aren't already compromised.
- sfifs 5y ago
  WhatsApp is trivially compromised to law enforcement already if you have backups setup which most people have for message recovery and switching phones. The backup is not encrypted with a private key.

specialist 5y ago

> I think that criminal organizations will now rely on a do it yourself technique. Ya, acknowledging the role of compromised encryption feels like burning their source. Speculation: Churchhill chose to let Coventry get bombed rather than disclose that German encryption had been cracked. Wouldn't the long game be to allow criminals to believe their communications remain secure, for law enforcement to do parallel construction for their cases? I can't imagine the calculus that goes into these decisions.

grumblenum 5y ago

>imminent mass shooting may prompt interdiction Pulse night club comes to mind as a counterpoint. A lot of people died to keep an informant happy. I think a more cynical outlook on law enforcement is appropriate.