5 ms·

Yeah, I think you are missing that the NHS, as an organization, is not good at designing, delivering, and maintaining large software platforms, which is what Pa

by rsj_hn 5y ago

Yeah, I think you are missing that the NHS, as an organization, is not good at designing, delivering, and maintaining large software platforms, which is what Palantir is good at. This is not an insult to the NHS. How on earth could they become good at something like that given that it is a healthcare system? They are also not good at maintaining cellular towers, water treatment, hospital construction, manufacturing their own uniforms, or their own medical equipment. So they pay other firms to provide these products to them rather than trying to adopt an autarky-based model. Now you could argue that they should have hired another vendor, but without knowing specifics about the bidding process and which other vendors were competing, you are not really in a position to say that this particular vendor wasn't the best for the job.

pydry 5y ago
>Now you could argue that they should have hired another vendor, but without knowing specifics about the bidding process and which other vendors were competing, you are not really in a position to say that this particular vendor wasn't the best for the job. You're saying that because of the lack of transparency in the bidding process when it was shoved through "as a COVID emergency" we're not in a particular position to say that this vendor wasn't best for the job? Maybe you are correct. Maybe we just need more faith in the vendor selection honesty of a government that recently contracted the services of a ferry company that didn't own any actual ferries.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > You're saying that because of the lack of transparency in the bidding process No, I am not saying that at all. Please cite where I said that there was a lack of transparency. I only said that the parent poster would need information in order to make a case, and without that information no case could be made. I have no idea how transparent the process was and whether the relevant oversight controls were properly enforced, nor did I make any claims or assumptions about that, although it sounds like you have some assumptions of your own. If so, please back them up -- if you think there was impropriety in the bidding process, then again some evidence is called for.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    Have a Google for "Matt Hancock's neighbour" or "Dido Harding". It's not unknown that there are some questions about UK procurement that need answering.
  - pydry 5y ago
    >Please cite where I said that there was a lack of transparency This: >without knowing specifics about the bidding process Something we don't know because of the lack of transparency, which is (partly) why OpenDemocracy raised a lawsuit. What would you be referring to if not that?
spamizbad 5y ago
Is Palantir good at this stuff, though? It sounds like they have a mixed track record on delivering value.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Why do you think that? I know there are a lot of people on the left who hate palantir because law enforcement is one of the sectors they work in, but I don't see how political animosity translates into them not being able to deliver value better than competitors.
  - sealeck 5y ago
    This isn't a great take; the fact that Palantir makes technology to racially profile people should mean that the company cannot deliver technology to fulfil the NHS's mission of equity in care "from the cradle to the grave." Additionally, even if Palantir was, not allowing them a contract would be a good sanction to encourage them to write software that treats all people with dignity and respect.
- austhrow743 5y ago
  Is there any enterprise grade software contracting firm that have a great track record? It's a difficult space.
Symbiote 5y ago
> the NHS, as an organization, is not good at designing, delivering, and maintaining large software platforms, which is what Palantir is good at. Has it ever had the opportunity to try? Many projects to funnel government money into private companies have not delivered results. Has a large, in-house NHS IT project failed?
- sealeck 5y ago
  Um, yes, but that's not to say that they can't run a better one.
CraigJPerry 5y ago
https://www.opensafely.org/ https://www.opensafely.org/ I disagree wholeheartedly
Hallucinaut 5y ago
There was no bidding process. They were handed the contract because they said it was £1. Several months later, that price was in the millions. Several months later they had a competition and with no time to handover what had been done, guess who won again? The GCloud contracts were released following FOI requests.
denton-scratch 5y ago
Actually, you are. Making Palantir responsible for the privacy of medical records is like making a fox responsible for the henhouse. It's the opposite of a good idea.

by rsj_hn 5y ago

pydry 5y ago

>Now you could argue that they should have hired another vendor, but without knowing specifics about the bidding process and which other vendors were competing, you are not really in a position to say that this particular vendor wasn't the best for the job. You're saying that because of the lack of transparency in the bidding process when it was shoved through "as a COVID emergency" we're not in a particular position to say that this vendor wasn't best for the job? Maybe you are correct. Maybe we just need more faith in the vendor selection honesty of a government that recently contracted the services of a ferry company that didn't own any actual ferries.

rsj_hn 5y ago
> You're saying that because of the lack of transparency in the bidding process No, I am not saying that at all. Please cite where I said that there was a lack of transparency. I only said that the parent poster would need information in order to make a case, and without that information no case could be made. I have no idea how transparent the process was and whether the relevant oversight controls were properly enforced, nor did I make any claims or assumptions about that, although it sounds like you have some assumptions of your own. If so, please back them up -- if you think there was impropriety in the bidding process, then again some evidence is called for.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Have a Google for "Matt Hancock's neighbour" or "Dido Harding". It's not unknown that there are some questions about UK procurement that need answering.
- pydry 5y ago
  >Please cite where I said that there was a lack of transparency This: >without knowing specifics about the bidding process Something we don't know because of the lack of transparency, which is (partly) why OpenDemocracy raised a lawsuit. What would you be referring to if not that?

spamizbad 5y ago

Is Palantir good at this stuff, though? It sounds like they have a mixed track record on delivering value.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Why do you think that? I know there are a lot of people on the left who hate palantir because law enforcement is one of the sectors they work in, but I don't see how political animosity translates into them not being able to deliver value better than competitors.
- sealeck 5y ago
  This isn't a great take; the fact that Palantir makes technology to racially profile people should mean that the company cannot deliver technology to fulfil the NHS's mission of equity in care "from the cradle to the grave." Additionally, even if Palantir was, not allowing them a contract would be a good sanction to encourage them to write software that treats all people with dignity and respect.
austhrow743 5y ago
Is there any enterprise grade software contracting firm that have a great track record? It's a difficult space.

Symbiote 5y ago

> the NHS, as an organization, is not good at designing, delivering, and maintaining large software platforms, which is what Palantir is good at. Has it ever had the opportunity to try? Many projects to funnel government money into private companies have not delivered results. Has a large, in-house NHS IT project failed?

sealeck 5y ago
Um, yes, but that's not to say that they can't run a better one.

CraigJPerry 5y ago

https://www.opensafely.org/ https://www.opensafely.org/ I disagree wholeheartedly

Hallucinaut 5y ago

There was no bidding process. They were handed the contract because they said it was £1. Several months later, that price was in the millions. Several months later they had a competition and with no time to handover what had been done, guess who won again? The GCloud contracts were released following FOI requests.

denton-scratch 5y ago

Actually, you are. Making Palantir responsible for the privacy of medical records is like making a fox responsible for the henhouse. It's the opposite of a good idea.