4 ms·

I don't think it's discrimination. In a world of finite opportunities, more and more of them going to the people that are born on level 50 when you have to star

I don't think it's discrimination. In a world of finite opportunities, more and more of them going to the people that are born on level 50 when you have to start at level 1 will inevitably lead to revolution against entrenched interests, as people realize things are rigged against them. History has a few examples, notably in France and Russia. What people call 'equality warriors' I call bloodshed preventers.

FredPret 5y ago
Leaving aside your implied threat of violence, what on earth convinces you that “opportunities are finite”? Human needs are infinite. Every solved problem creates a new class of problems that you can solve. And that’s ignoring the many bad solutions we already live with that are ripe for replacement.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >Leaving aside your implied threat of violence, what on earth convinces you that “opportunities are finite”? Of course they aren't. Once the central bank hits the 2% inflation goal it is just a matter of time until there are enough opportunities for everyone.
IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
For a system to be rigged, it implies that the same people stay at the top. Look at the most valuable companies today, and look 30 years ago. There are numerous studies that show that income volatility at the top and at the bottom are very pronounced in US vs Europe and other developed countries. More importantly, about 50% of people in the US will be in the top 10% of income, at least 1 year of their lives. This goes against the tenet that the system is "rigged" or at least, it far less rigged here than in the rest of the world.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago
  > This goes against the tenet that the system is "rigged" or at least, it far less rigged here than in the rest of the world. Alas, while you might want to believe the American Dream is alive and well, it's very much on life support. For example, the World Economic Forum ranked the US 27th in social mobility: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-...
  - FredPret 5y ago
    Trust the WEF to sing the praises of their home continent and disparage America. Europe has the very worst wealth (not income) inequality on the planet, but you won’t hear a peep about that.
    - CarelessExpert 5y ago
      This is just an ad hominem attack and adds nothing to the discourse. Do you have information which contradicts the WEF analysis?
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    I don't know what social mobility is. But having France in that number where they have a persistent unemployment number that is double that of the US, and where the entrenched interests have held on to their wealth for centuries, is very strange. What I do know is income mobility since that's a hard number, and hard to manufacture. And in that respect, citizens of the US are far better than the rest of the world. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-to-riches-to-rags.html?smid=pl-share https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - CarelessExpert 5y ago
      > I don't know what social mobility is. You'll find in the article I provided that it offers the following definition: Social mobility refers to the movement of individuals either up or down the socioeconomic ladder relative to their current standing, such as a low-income family moving up to become a part of the middle class. Countries with high levels of social mobility exhibit lower levels of income inequality and provide more equally shared opportunities for its citizens across each of the five pillars. This is, of course, precisely what we're discussing here. For example, regarding Denmark, it notes: Denmark holds the title for the most socially mobile country in the world, boasting an index score of 85.2. If a person is born into a low-income family in Denmark, the WEF estimates it would take two generations to reach a median income. In contrast, someone in Brazil or South Africa would take nine generations at the current pace of growth. > And in that respect, citizens of the US are far better than the rest of the world. The opinion piece you've cited makes absolutely no claims about how the US compares to other nations, and therefore does not support your claims. It's of course a fascinating analysis. But it does not even broach the question of whether "citizens of the US are far better" off than those in other countries.
asoneth 5y ago
> What people call 'equality warriors' I call bloodshed preventers. Seems prudent to support, even if you are born on level 50. The current system endures as long as most people feel like they still have more to gain playing by the rules. If a critical mass of sufficiently capable people conclude that the game is rigged against them and they have exhausted their options to change it from within then attempting a hard reboot of all levels using pitchforks and guillotines starts to seem pretty rational. Not sure how far we are from hitting that critical mass, but it would be nice not to find out.

FredPret 5y ago

Leaving aside your implied threat of violence, what on earth convinces you that “opportunities are finite”? Human needs are infinite. Every solved problem creates a new class of problems that you can solve. And that’s ignoring the many bad solutions we already live with that are ripe for replacement.

imtringued 5y ago
>Leaving aside your implied threat of violence, what on earth convinces you that “opportunities are finite”? Of course they aren't. Once the central bank hits the 2% inflation goal it is just a matter of time until there are enough opportunities for everyone.

IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago

For a system to be rigged, it implies that the same people stay at the top. Look at the most valuable companies today, and look 30 years ago. There are numerous studies that show that income volatility at the top and at the bottom are very pronounced in US vs Europe and other developed countries. More importantly, about 50% of people in the US will be in the top 10% of income, at least 1 year of their lives. This goes against the tenet that the system is "rigged" or at least, it far less rigged here than in the rest of the world.

CarelessExpert 5y ago
> This goes against the tenet that the system is "rigged" or at least, it far less rigged here than in the rest of the world. Alas, while you might want to believe the American Dream is alive and well, it's very much on life support. For example, the World Economic Forum ranked the US 27th in social mobility: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-...
- FredPret 5y ago
  Trust the WEF to sing the praises of their home continent and disparage America. Europe has the very worst wealth (not income) inequality on the planet, but you won’t hear a peep about that.
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    This is just an ad hominem attack and adds nothing to the discourse. Do you have information which contradicts the WEF analysis?
- IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
  I don't know what social mobility is. But having France in that number where they have a persistent unemployment number that is double that of the US, and where the entrenched interests have held on to their wealth for centuries, is very strange. What I do know is income mobility since that's a hard number, and hard to manufacture. And in that respect, citizens of the US are far better than the rest of the world. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-to-riches-to-rags.html?smid=pl-share https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    > I don't know what social mobility is. You'll find in the article I provided that it offers the following definition: Social mobility refers to the movement of individuals either up or down the socioeconomic ladder relative to their current standing, such as a low-income family moving up to become a part of the middle class. Countries with high levels of social mobility exhibit lower levels of income inequality and provide more equally shared opportunities for its citizens across each of the five pillars. This is, of course, precisely what we're discussing here. For example, regarding Denmark, it notes: Denmark holds the title for the most socially mobile country in the world, boasting an index score of 85.2. If a person is born into a low-income family in Denmark, the WEF estimates it would take two generations to reach a median income. In contrast, someone in Brazil or South Africa would take nine generations at the current pace of growth. > And in that respect, citizens of the US are far better than the rest of the world. The opinion piece you've cited makes absolutely no claims about how the US compares to other nations, and therefore does not support your claims. It's of course a fascinating analysis. But it does not even broach the question of whether "citizens of the US are far better" off than those in other countries.

asoneth 5y ago

> What people call 'equality warriors' I call bloodshed preventers. Seems prudent to support, even if you are born on level 50. The current system endures as long as most people feel like they still have more to gain playing by the rules. If a critical mass of sufficiently capable people conclude that the game is rigged against them and they have exhausted their options to change it from within then attempting a hard reboot of all levels using pitchforks and guillotines starts to seem pretty rational. Not sure how far we are from hitting that critical mass, but it would be nice not to find out.