11 ms·
On 'Biweekly' and 'Bimonthly'
- colordrops 5y agoSimilar to "this Monday" and "next Monday"
- function_seven 5y agoYou just unearthed something I never realized about my own use of "this" and "next". I don't think I've ever uttered the phrase, "this Monday". Ever. The soonest Monday in the future is always "next Monday", because it's always in the following week. So, if I'm talking to you on a Thursday, I'll say "next Monday" to refer to the day four days hence. If we're talking on a Sunday, then it's just "tomorrow". But with a day like Friday, the this/next thing comes into play. I'll use "this Friday" to talk about the future Friday that shares the week we're in, and "next Friday" to refer to the one that occurs in the following week. So for example, June 12, 2021 will become "this Friday" tomorrow morning. But right now, it's still "next Friday", because the weekend ain't over. This comment is mostly me trying to add structure to a stream of consciousness realization that just hit me. Reading the phrase "this Monday" knocked me off balance a bit and I couldn't articulate why at first.
- lstamour 5y agoIf it's Saturday, and you're sending an email or text to confirm Monday's plans, you'd more likely to say "this Monday" than you would say "next Monday," though? I agree with you, "this <weekday>" means the upcoming day this week, and generally changes to "last" if referring to the past, and "next" if referring to next week. "Next week Monday" or "a week from Monday" could both refer to "Monday, a week from now" though the first one might be confused if sent on a Friday... Really, the answer is to skip English entirely and use calendar events and hope time zones don't change between when you plan the event and when it occurs. ;-)
- function_seven 5y agoIf given a binary choice, I think you're right. I'd use "this Monday." But really I'd just say "Monday" or "on Monday" in that case. As in, "Just confirming that we're going to update the confabulator settings on Monday." After writing my previous comment, I keep coming up with exceptions and variances to those exceptions. Like—as I write this—I would refer to June 9 as "this Wednesday", but June 11 as "next Friday". So I suppose I "glue" Fridays to the weekend? And right now it's still the weekend so June 4 retains the "this" title until tomorrow? Starting to feel like I have epicycles of rules similar to the adjective ordering we all know, but never explicitly learned ("big red bouncy rubber ball" is okay; "bouncy red rubber big ball" is NOT OK)
- lstamour 5y agoYeah, the "weekend-ness" of Friday is interesting. Actually I could extend that to the last couple days, in relative time. For example, if it's Thursday, and I said "last Monday", that would actually be kind of confusing, just as if it were Sunday and I said "last Friday". I'm much more likely to say "On Monday," or "On Friday," if it's within the current week or the current weekend, and use the sentence context to figure out if I meant the previous weekday or the upcoming one. I'm glad I don't write either dictionaries or voice-based/natural language apps for calendar appointments. ;-)
- angled 5y ago"this coming Monday" and "following Monday" are better!
- twic 5y agoAnd in practice, "this coming Monday" and "not this coming Monday, but the following one"!
- dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago"Monday week" clears that up.
- sicromoft 5y agoTIL. I had never heard that until now (I'm American). Seems to be a British idiom?
- richrichardsson 5y agoBrit here: I've only ever heard that used by Americans. YMMV.
- Tomuus 5y agoIt's a common phrase in East Anglia in my experience.
- smilekzs 5y agoI personally use "incoming" and "past" instead --- indicating the closest one in the future/past.
- Renaud 5y agoSome languages, like French, make the distinction not on the prefix but on the noun used to refer to the period: * bimensuel/elle : twice a month * bimestriel/elle: every 2 months And trimestriel and semestriel for every 3 and 6 months respectively. It's strange that English left this ambiguity in usage when the semi- prefix exists.
- josephg 5y agoIts strange American English created this ambiguity in usage. There's a perfectly good english language noun which means "2 weeks". The word is "Fortnight". We use it all the time here in Australia - eg "This is a fortnightly meeting" / "Lets meet back up in a fortnight and discuss progress". I consider teaching "fortnight" to americans a gift I insist on giving to every american colleague I work with. Its already in your dictionaries, after all. Please use it, and you're welcome!
- wyattpeak 5y agoI don't think it's at all peculiar to American English. Fortnight solves only one of the six situations spoken of in the article (twice a week/month/year, once every two weeks/months/years). It's good for that, but we're in the same position Americans are if we're trying to talk about something happening every two years.
- drstewart 5y agoHere's a gift to you: the opposite of "here in Australia we do something" isn't "only Americans don't do it".
- Dylan16807 5y ago> Its strange American English created this ambiguity in usage. There's a perfectly good english language noun which means "2 weeks". The word is "Fortnight". ...the ambiguity exists whether or not you use fortnight! Fortnight combined with semi- will do pretty well, assuming people don't screw up semi-. But you still need an unambiguous term for "every other month" before the problem is solved. Maybe if you can change the schedule to quarterly?
- recursive 5y agoThis is why my meetings are called "fortnightly".
- martyvis 5y agoAs an Aussie, I was amazed to learn that most Americans had never heard of fortnight (or maybe knew exactly what length of time it is). I guess the funny thing is that it is a non-obvious contraction of "fourteen nights" - and not "forty nights".
- yitchelle 5y agoWhen I used first used it in Europe, none of my colleagues from Germany or the UK has heard of it either. I changed it to once every two weeks to avoid confusion.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y agoThat seems odd. “Fortnight” is very common in British English.
- yitchelle 5y agoAs far as I can remember (many years ago), my UK colleagues were not natives, and have only moved there only just a short time before. That would explain it.
- giantandroids 5y agoThat does not sound right at all, its a very common a word in the UK. Fortnight derives from Old English "fēowertyne niht", meaning "fourteen nights" Are you sure that was not the case for non native speaking folks in living in the UK.
- yitchelle 5y agoI think you are correct. It was many years ago but I remembered that they mentioned to be that they have just moved to the UK.
- siddboots 5y agoYet another example of temporal ambiguity is the notion of “bringing forward” or “pushing back” a deadline. The sense employed is the opposite of the ordinary use i.e., moving “back” into the past or “forward” into the future.
- function_seven 5y agoI've always struggled with text being "in front of" other text. To me, the last word of a sentence is "in front of" the preceding word (which, of course is "behind it"). But also the first word of the sentence, coming first, "went in front" of the remaining words. I know the right answer, but I still have to stop a split-second to remember it.
- NKosmatos 5y agoCame here to write the exact same thing!!! We have a very heated/funny discussion in the office (pre COVID) every time I use one of these two. It all has to do with the point of reference, the vector of the arrow of time and the temporal conditions of the situation, but that’s something for another comment :-)
- _tom_ 5y agoCheck out the Aymara language, where the past is in front of you and the future is behind you! As a non expert, I think the general idea is you can see the past, therefor it is in front of you, and the future is unknown, so it’s where you can’t see it, behind you.
- pcl 5y agoIndian English has a great word to help disambiguate these sorts of situations: “prepone”: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/prepone https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/prepone Also, no analysis of the semantic chaos of scheduling-related terms in English can be complete without a reference to “tabling”: the act of setting something aside for later discussion (to an American), or the act of discussing something immediately (to the rest of the English-speaking world). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedu...
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- vmception 5y agothat clears up some things I thought this was going to be about salary though
- mattowen_uk 5y agoTIL: obstreperous https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=obstreperous https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=obstreperous What a great word.
- aesyondu 5y agosavedyouaclick: 1 : marked by unruly or aggressive noisiness : clamorous obstreperous merriment an obstreperous argument. 2 : stubbornly resistant to control : unruly obstreperous behavior an obstreperous child.
- dkjaudyeqooe 5y agoDon't get me started with the (non-English) usage of "half-seven" to indicate either half past six or half past seven, depending on some non-obvious cultural factor.
- _delirium 5y agoThat one has English usage too! "Half seven" is common in British English to mean half past seven. But yes, as you allude, it's a source of confusion for Danish, German, and other foreigners in the UK, some of whom speak a language where "half seven" means 6:30 instead.
- dkjaudyeqooe 5y agoWell, I hadn't encountered it there, but now I know. In the Netherlands it seem to mean both, depending on which part of the country you were from.
- brnt 5y agoNope, in NL its not ambiguous.
- lvncelot 5y agoIn German, "half seven" indicates half past six, everywhere. But - annoyingly, there's also "quarter seven", which is a regional thing. And then you're left to decipher whether both are short for "{half,quarter} [left until the hour] seven" or "{half,quarter} [have passed since the hour before] seven". It's the latter, btw.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- FeepingCreature 5y agoShould be disambiguated by the fact that quarter to seven is viertel vor sieben, right? So, viertel sieben, halb sieben, viertel vor/dreiviertel sieben, sieben.
- drmpeg 5y agoBack in the dark ages before direct deposit, it was much better to get a paycheck biweekly (every other week) than bimonthly (15th and last day of the month).
- avalys 5y agoNot as bad as “inflammable”, my personal vote for the most dangerous word in the English language.
- rorykoehler 5y agoDepress too. Depress the brake the example.
- AussieWog93 5y agoI have never heard "depress" used that way (native speaker, AU).
- rorykoehler 5y agoCommon in Ireland and the UK. E.G. https://www.quora.com/Why-do-you-have-to-depress-the-clutch-when-starting-a-manual-car?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Why-do-you-have-to-depress-the-clutch-...
- zelos 5y agoSo much so that they eventually removed it from hazard warnings.
- FriedrichN 5y agoWhat about disgruntled? Have you ever been gruntled?
- teddyh 5y ago“Gruntled” is, in fact, a word.
- _Nat_ 5y agoIt is pretty silly for "flammable" and "inflammable" to be commonly defined as synonyms. Also pretty silly for "flammable"/"inflammable" to be synonyms when "combustible"/"incombustible" are antonyms. Does seem like folks ought to stop using the old definition of "inflammable", but if they must, seems like it ought to be spelled as "enflammable", much like "enrage" displaced "inrage". ["Rebracketing", Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebracketing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebracketing) has a neat discussion about the interpretation-ambiguity.
- pulse7 5y agoSimilar for "higher priority": is "number 1 priority" really >>higher<< than "number 2 priority"?
- Grustaf 5y agoPriority 1 is always more important than priority 2, yes. Sort of like a "first secretary" has "higher" rank than a "second secretary".
- kevincox 5y agoWhen I worked at Google I maintained a list "is bigger better" or something like that. Bug priorities 1 is higher than 2. Network priorities? 2 is higher than 1. The list went on and on...
- _tom_ 5y agoA similar ambiguity that I had to give up on using was “next Friday”. If it’s Monday, half the people think next Friday is the one in next week. The others that it is the next Friday, the one that occurs in five days. Now it’s “this Friday” or “a week from Friday”
- ketzo 5y agoOh man, but try using “this Friday” on a Saturday. Now you’ve entered into a possible third case!
- andi999 5y agoA week from Friday is something very different, isnt it?
- jakear 5y ago“This Friday” or “not this Friday but the next” is the way to go.
- masklinn 5y agoA Case For Week Numbers. Friday Week 26 is certainly less convenient to say or parse, but it’s completely unambiguous. Yes, everybody uses ISO week numbering, it’s what’s on the calendar, it does not matter that you don’t like it. Week ordinal = iso, cope.
- prvc 5y agoRegarding the claim the "semi-" is unambiguous: the fundamental confusion with "bi-" arises from dealing with a rate, and the resultant lack of, if you will, semantic associativity. The same problem can arise in exactly the same way with the former prefix. And there's nothing they can do about it, as avowed descriptivists.
- klodolph 5y agoAs descriptivists, they observe that the "semi-" prefix is unambiguous, and the problem doesn't arise.
- lemoncucumber 5y agoI’m not sure I agree. Here’s my interpretation of what you mean by semantic associativity: “Bi-” is another way of saying “two,” and the confusion with “biweekly” arises because it’s unclear if the “two” should be taken to mean “two occurrences per week” or “two weeks per occurrence.” Meanwhile, “semi-” means “one half,” and in normal conversation it’s not common to say that an event occurs “one half of a time per week”. So it’s unambiguous that it must refer to “one occurrence per half week.”
- prvc 5y ago(biweek)ly = once per two week interval = 1/14 day^-1 bi(weekly) = double once per one week interval = 2/7 day^-1 (semiweek)ly = once per half-week interval = 2/7 day^-1 semi(weekly) = half of the rate of once per week interval = 1/14 day^-1 So, we end up with the same two meanings in the end.
- twic 5y agoThe point is that nobody would instinctively choose that fourth interpretation, because nobody instinctively thinks of events happening at a rate.
- D13Fd 5y agoI disagree. “Semi” means half, i.e., less than. But all things being equal, if a meeting is held “half as much as annually,” I would expect it to occur every 2 years, not twice as often as annually. I think it has the same issue as biannually or biweekly.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- diebeforei485 5y agoOne of my favorite podcasts, Hello Internet (hosted by CGP Grey and Brady Haran, though currently on hiatus) had this section called the "biweekly weigh-in" where every sometimes the hosts would talk about their health gains. Using an ambiguous word like "biweekly" was very much intentional.
- blackfede 5y agoIt took me a while to realize that in italian we don't have a word to day "every two weeks". bisettimanale means twice a week, bimensile means twice a month and bimestrale every two months.
- twic 5y agoLogically, it must be "bisettimatrale". HTH, HAND.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- aljungberg 5y agoTo me semiweekly sounds like “somewhat” weekly (the same interpretation as in “semiconscious”). With that reading, semiweekly would mean it’s basically weekly but not quite. Maybe it’s not every week, there could be some exceptions. I like there rationale of using this prefix though. In the same vein, perhaps hemiweekly? Like in hemisphere. Same logic applied but the hemi- prefix is less overloaded.
- shermablanca 5y agoSanction. A) explicit or official approval, permission, or ratification B) to attach a sanction or penalty to the violation of (a right, obligation, or command) Ugh.
- juancn 5y agoThese are all latin-style words, there are much worse horrors in english importing them. One of my favorites is "ingenuity", used as being clever or inventive. It share the root with "ingenuidad" in spanish, which means "naive" (-ity endings correlate with -idad endings in spanish, the same way than -tion goes with -ción). The word that means clever or inventive is "ingenioso" which in english should be "ingenious" (-ious goes with -ioso, e.g. "precious" and "precioso"), so as a noun, it should be "ingeniousness". It confused me a lot when I was learning english.