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I've been thinking about this for a long time. I don't think it's because wages are low or working conditions are bad. Both of those things are about the same a

I've been thinking about this for a long time. I don't think it's because wages are low or working conditions are bad. Both of those things are about the same as they were in 2019, before the pandemic. If a job at McDonalds was good enough then, why isn't it good enough now? I think it's because people stopped spending as much discretionary money as they did before. People couldn't go out or travel because everything was closed. "Dinner and a movie" turned into "Netflix and a pizza", which is allowed people to save money for a year. Some people are spending that saved money on real estate or crypto. Others, I believe, are giving up part time work that they used to do for extra income. A spouse can afford to quit their part time job and stay home to take care of children. Someone can get by on a stipend that wouldn't have been enough when people were spending more money. If this is true, we should see a rapid return to low wage jobs as the country starts to re-open in the coming months. The federal unemployment increase runs out in September (I believe). If people don't start going work after that then this could be a larger societal shift.

danaris 5y ago
> Both of those things are about the same as they were in 2019, before the pandemic. If a job at McDonalds was good enough then, why isn't it good enough now? Because people have had enough. We saw the way companies treated employees during the pandemic—that is to say, like firewood that they could burn for profit, replacing them as they went through them—and many people are no longer interested in allowing themselves to be exploited for a pittance. It's not a terribly uncommon phenomenon for people to be in a bad situation that seems, or has been treated as, normal for a long time, but when the situation changes temporarily, find that this sort of opens their eyes to how bad it had been all along.
imgabe 5y ago
This is an interesting idea that I haven't seen before. I wonder how many of these jobs that are going unfilled were second or third jobs before. I don't know if there's any way to measure that, but it makes sense. People didn't give up working altogether, they can just get by with one job now because they spend less.
Octoth0rpe 5y ago
> real estate or crypto you seriously think former mcdonalds workers - now unemployed - have taken their year of unemployment and bought either of those things? Really?
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  Yes? Why wouldn’t they?
  - ruined 5y ago
    households with income under $40k mainly used stimulus money to pay down debt or purchase essentials https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/10/how-have-households-used-their-stimulus-payments-and-how-would-they-spend-the-next.html https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/10/how-ha... a good chunk did go to savings but for budgets this small that usually means a savings account or cash at home. i expect unemployment was spent similarly.
  - lghh 5y ago
    How on earth is a former McDonald’s employee, now unemployed, getting approved for any kind of loan for a rental property? Crypto? Sure maybe like 20 bucks once, but the rest of that money is for food and rent and maybe a small hobby.
    - thepasswordis 5y ago
      I don’t know. I personally know people who worked at low wage hourly jobs like that who were exploring buying a second home during the pandemic to have as a rental property. Often these people are what some people might call “handy men”. They are married, so they have multiple incomes, meaning multiple people who were receiving stimulus checks and UI. It may surprise some of you making $300k/yr and buying $2M houses in San Francisco to learn this, but the people who make your food and deliver your things have lives as wrll. They aren’t just servants.
      - 5y ago
goldenchrome 5y ago
It seems that the pandemic has created a de-facto mass decentralized union of low-skilled workers. I believe that before the pandemic, most low-skilled workers felt that their working conditions were unfair but they didn't have the means to protest. The pandemic sent everyone home and gave everyone the opportunity to quit at the same time (via unemployment benefits and stimulus checks). Now these workers are collectively yet passively bargaining for their rights. Social media has given them a tool to relate their experiences to each other, which empowers everyone. But since it's not a real union, time will show if they lose their power once unemployment benefits are cut. Alternatively, if people truly hate their jobs, companies may be forced to raise wages to convince people to come back to work.

danaris 5y ago

> Both of those things are about the same as they were in 2019, before the pandemic. If a job at McDonalds was good enough then, why isn't it good enough now? Because people have had enough. We saw the way companies treated employees during the pandemic—that is to say, like firewood that they could burn for profit, replacing them as they went through them—and many people are no longer interested in allowing themselves to be exploited for a pittance. It's not a terribly uncommon phenomenon for people to be in a bad situation that seems, or has been treated as, normal for a long time, but when the situation changes temporarily, find that this sort of opens their eyes to how bad it had been all along.

imgabe 5y ago

This is an interesting idea that I haven't seen before. I wonder how many of these jobs that are going unfilled were second or third jobs before. I don't know if there's any way to measure that, but it makes sense. People didn't give up working altogether, they can just get by with one job now because they spend less.

Octoth0rpe 5y ago

> real estate or crypto you seriously think former mcdonalds workers - now unemployed - have taken their year of unemployment and bought either of those things? Really?

thepasswordis 5y ago
Yes? Why wouldn’t they?
- ruined 5y ago
  households with income under $40k mainly used stimulus money to pay down debt or purchase essentials https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/10/how-have-households-used-their-stimulus-payments-and-how-would-they-spend-the-next.html https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/10/how-ha... a good chunk did go to savings but for budgets this small that usually means a savings account or cash at home. i expect unemployment was spent similarly.
- lghh 5y ago
  How on earth is a former McDonald’s employee, now unemployed, getting approved for any kind of loan for a rental property? Crypto? Sure maybe like 20 bucks once, but the rest of that money is for food and rent and maybe a small hobby.
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    I don’t know. I personally know people who worked at low wage hourly jobs like that who were exploring buying a second home during the pandemic to have as a rental property. Often these people are what some people might call “handy men”. They are married, so they have multiple incomes, meaning multiple people who were receiving stimulus checks and UI. It may surprise some of you making $300k/yr and buying $2M houses in San Francisco to learn this, but the people who make your food and deliver your things have lives as wrll. They aren’t just servants.
    - 5y ago

goldenchrome 5y ago

It seems that the pandemic has created a de-facto mass decentralized union of low-skilled workers. I believe that before the pandemic, most low-skilled workers felt that their working conditions were unfair but they didn't have the means to protest. The pandemic sent everyone home and gave everyone the opportunity to quit at the same time (via unemployment benefits and stimulus checks). Now these workers are collectively yet passively bargaining for their rights. Social media has given them a tool to relate their experiences to each other, which empowers everyone. But since it's not a real union, time will show if they lose their power once unemployment benefits are cut. Alternatively, if people truly hate their jobs, companies may be forced to raise wages to convince people to come back to work.