11 ms·

I will surprise you, even USA has a problem catching all Chinese fishing ships near Hawaii. There is simply that much of them. Chinese fishing fleet is world's

I will surprise you, even USA has a problem catching all Chinese fishing ships near Hawaii. There is simply that much of them. Chinese fishing fleet is world's biggest, and they have 1 gigaton a year steel output to make more.

rafale 5y ago
At some point, the only option is to sink them and drop life jackets in the area.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  Argentine coast guard opens fire on Chinese fishing boat (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA Argentina sinks Chinese fishing ship that entered restricted area(2016) >"The offending ship continued to maneuver in an attempt to cause a collision" (0:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c >Therefore, the concept of people's war was applied to the sea with fishermen and other nautical laborers being drafted into a maritime militia. >Most vessels are issued with navigation and communication equipment while some are also issued small arms. The communications systems can be used both for communication and espionage. Often fishermen supply their own vessels, however, there are also core contingents of the maritime militia who operate vessels fitted out for militia work instead of fishing; these vessels feature reinforced bows for ramming and high powered water cannons. The increasing sophistication of militia vessels' communication equipment is a double-edged sword for Chinese authorities. New equipment, as well as training in its use, has substantially improved command, control, and coordination of militia units. However, the vessels' resulting professionalism and sophisticated maneuvers make them more identifiable as government-sponsored actors, dampening their ability to function as a gray-zone force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Maritime_Militia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Mariti... S. Korean Coast Guard fires machine gun in warning to illegal Chinese fishing boats >"They were surrounded and threatened by some 30 other fishing boats" (0:17) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk You don't need to look very far to find reports like this. There are too many incidents to list here.
  - belter 5y ago
    Taking into account the size of the problem, most persons would just assume these were the ones that did not pay the bribes...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  The sad thing is the people out there on the boats are in all likelihood just trying to scrape a living and the people who deserve to be in harm's way are higher up the economic ladder. There are a lot of world problems that amount to "no one holds China accountable" (and to a lesser extent, first world nations don't do enough to hold themselves accountable), and I would really like for countries to tax and/or sanction China for their negative externalities (e.g., pollution, overfishing) it would make the world a much better place--either China starts to compete fairly or else they lose the wealthiest markets to the advantage of the whole world and especially countries in Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and South America who would fill the manufacturing void. Mandatory disclaimer for the pro-China accounts: I'm very much not interested in deflecting to the West's problems--they exist, but they don't excuse China (nor does China's bad behavior excuse that of the West's). This kind of deflection is just a race to the bottom.
  - KirillPanov 5y ago
    > The sad thing is the people out there on the boats are in all likelihood just trying to scrape a living Bullshit, somebody on board is turning off the ship's transponder. They know that they are doing something criminal.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      "Desperate" doesn't imply "legally innocent". In particular, China has an abundance of desperate people (I won't remark on its political system), so punishing the desperate in this case probably won't move the needle. Further, and I say this as someone who prefers to err on the tough-on-crime side, it's unjust to punish the desperate when the wealthy are pulling the strings, raking in the profit, and bearing none of the risk.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Not to mention all the other places crew is recruited from. Including crew on first world merchant marine ships.
  - 5y ago
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
The big question is what can a nation do to stop this? The normal diplomatic and legal avenues don't seem to do much. A ship here and there can be seized but much like fines that are slaps on the wrist for large corporations, there's too much economic value in violating the rules. A seized ship now and then is a small price to pay for access to everyone else's fishing areas. There don't seem to be any good escalation paths that aren't morally unconscionable.
- weatherlight 5y ago
  Time to start sinking ships.
  - op00to 5y ago
    Start accrediting privateers to protect the waters!
    - narrator 5y ago
      Letters of Marque and Reprisal.[1] This is how the early U.S fought the Barbary pirates in the Barbary Wars[2] in the early days of the republic. This power is actually authorized explicitly in the U.S Constitution. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
      - splitstud 5y ago
        Our 21st century take: sell the rights to the history Channel for a pirates reality series
      - hef19898 5y ago
        And abolished since the end of the Napoleonic Wars, if memory serves well. And thus illegal. It would be better to fight the defacto slavery of the crews (agencies, owners and so on), the abysmal conditions in these crews home countries and sanction the hell out the owners of these ships and the people / companies making a healthy profit from them. But why bother, because you would just end up with more expensive shipping im general and more expensive fish.

rafale 5y ago

At some point, the only option is to sink them and drop life jackets in the area.

aww_dang 5y ago
Argentine coast guard opens fire on Chinese fishing boat (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA Argentina sinks Chinese fishing ship that entered restricted area(2016) >"The offending ship continued to maneuver in an attempt to cause a collision" (0:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c >Therefore, the concept of people's war was applied to the sea with fishermen and other nautical laborers being drafted into a maritime militia. >Most vessels are issued with navigation and communication equipment while some are also issued small arms. The communications systems can be used both for communication and espionage. Often fishermen supply their own vessels, however, there are also core contingents of the maritime militia who operate vessels fitted out for militia work instead of fishing; these vessels feature reinforced bows for ramming and high powered water cannons. The increasing sophistication of militia vessels' communication equipment is a double-edged sword for Chinese authorities. New equipment, as well as training in its use, has substantially improved command, control, and coordination of militia units. However, the vessels' resulting professionalism and sophisticated maneuvers make them more identifiable as government-sponsored actors, dampening their ability to function as a gray-zone force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Maritime_Militia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Mariti... S. Korean Coast Guard fires machine gun in warning to illegal Chinese fishing boats >"They were surrounded and threatened by some 30 other fishing boats" (0:17) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk You don't need to look very far to find reports like this. There are too many incidents to list here.
- belter 5y ago
  Taking into account the size of the problem, most persons would just assume these were the ones that did not pay the bribes...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
throwaway894345 5y ago
The sad thing is the people out there on the boats are in all likelihood just trying to scrape a living and the people who deserve to be in harm's way are higher up the economic ladder. There are a lot of world problems that amount to "no one holds China accountable" (and to a lesser extent, first world nations don't do enough to hold themselves accountable), and I would really like for countries to tax and/or sanction China for their negative externalities (e.g., pollution, overfishing) it would make the world a much better place--either China starts to compete fairly or else they lose the wealthiest markets to the advantage of the whole world and especially countries in Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and South America who would fill the manufacturing void. Mandatory disclaimer for the pro-China accounts: I'm very much not interested in deflecting to the West's problems--they exist, but they don't excuse China (nor does China's bad behavior excuse that of the West's). This kind of deflection is just a race to the bottom.
- KirillPanov 5y ago
  > The sad thing is the people out there on the boats are in all likelihood just trying to scrape a living Bullshit, somebody on board is turning off the ship's transponder. They know that they are doing something criminal.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    "Desperate" doesn't imply "legally innocent". In particular, China has an abundance of desperate people (I won't remark on its political system), so punishing the desperate in this case probably won't move the needle. Further, and I say this as someone who prefers to err on the tough-on-crime side, it's unjust to punish the desperate when the wealthy are pulling the strings, raking in the profit, and bearing none of the risk.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Not to mention all the other places crew is recruited from. Including crew on first world merchant marine ships.
- 5y ago

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

The big question is what can a nation do to stop this? The normal diplomatic and legal avenues don't seem to do much. A ship here and there can be seized but much like fines that are slaps on the wrist for large corporations, there's too much economic value in violating the rules. A seized ship now and then is a small price to pay for access to everyone else's fishing areas. There don't seem to be any good escalation paths that aren't morally unconscionable.

weatherlight 5y ago
Time to start sinking ships.
- op00to 5y ago
  Start accrediting privateers to protect the waters!
  - narrator 5y ago
    Letters of Marque and Reprisal.[1] This is how the early U.S fought the Barbary pirates in the Barbary Wars[2] in the early days of the republic. This power is actually authorized explicitly in the U.S Constitution. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
    - splitstud 5y ago
      Our 21st century take: sell the rights to the history Channel for a pirates reality series
    - hef19898 5y ago
      And abolished since the end of the Napoleonic Wars, if memory serves well. And thus illegal. It would be better to fight the defacto slavery of the crews (agencies, owners and so on), the abysmal conditions in these crews home countries and sanction the hell out the owners of these ships and the people / companies making a healthy profit from them. But why bother, because you would just end up with more expensive shipping im general and more expensive fish.