4 ms·

I think that mattmcnight's point was that Yegge is criticizing an accepted definition of requirements analysis. So, edw, when you say "he doesn't respect it, pr

I think that mattmcnight's point was that Yegge is criticizing an accepted definition of requirements analysis. So, edw, when you say "he doesn't respect it, probably because he doesn't know how to do it" you are a bit off base - you're referring to a practice which is different from the one matt and Yegge are talking about. But you're probably right that they aren't familiar with the kind of requirements analysis you're talking about. It also seems like you're agreeing with them when they say that "requirements analysis is bullshit" - because you think the practices they're referring to are worthless. That said, I am very interested in the things that you know work every time. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

edw519 18y ago
Yegge is criticizing an accepted definition of requirements analysis So his title (Business Requirements are Bullshit) was just bait. I guess I took it. I once wrote a hn post with a lot more "meat on the bones" about what works. Here it is: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=84977 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=84977
- swombat 18y ago
  Of course his title was bait! What else could a title like that be!? :-) I also think that your response is off-base though. Taking your own statements: 1) Steve is wrong to call "Requirements gathering" bullshit because you know how to do it properly 2) "Requirements gathering" as taught in most accepted books and other texts is bullshit If you then throw in: 3) Steve was referring to the "Requirements agethering" as taught in most accepted texts (and, I'll add, practiced in many large organisations). Then we get: 4) You're referring to your own special brew of "Requirements gathering", which has little to do with what Steve was talking about! Unfortunately, when most people say "Requirements gathering", they refer to the standard, accepted processes taught in books and large consulting companies. And those, as Steve declares, are largely bullshit. I worked in a large, process-driven IT consulting firm for 4 years, and I can affirm without a doubt that the processes they used to gather requirements would fail miserably at attempting to produce a great start-up product.
  - jimbokun 18y ago
    I think Yegge goes beyond that, though. He presents "make something you, yourself, want" as the key to making something others want. If I understand edw519 correctly, he is saying "bust your butt and do a lot of very hard work to see the world through your customers eyes," in order to to make something others want.
    - Spyckie 18y ago
      'Make something you yourself want' is what I would recommend to hackers in general. No offense to them, but when it comes to understanding what others want, they aren't able to do it, and often lament, criticize, put down, or devalue other people's actions or responses that don't make sense (instead of trying to understand them). For instance, many hackers can't fathom why so many people use Facebook (and don't try to understand that target population, but just ignore it or write a blog post about how Facebook has no value to them). If you have the ability (and I really think it is a skill that you have to train) to understand other people and their motivations and needs, then I would suggest doing what edw is saying. But, from experience trying to teach my own hacker friends, this ability is very hard to learn. Unfortunately for hackers, making what they themselves want often only caters to a small niche market in the vast world of people out there, so it might be useful to invest some time in learning how to understand other people, or team up with someone who has that ability in one form or the other.

edw519 18y ago

Yegge is criticizing an accepted definition of requirements analysis So his title (Business Requirements are Bullshit) was just bait. I guess I took it. I once wrote a hn post with a lot more "meat on the bones" about what works. Here it is: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=84977 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=84977

swombat 18y ago
Of course his title was bait! What else could a title like that be!? :-) I also think that your response is off-base though. Taking your own statements: 1) Steve is wrong to call "Requirements gathering" bullshit because you know how to do it properly 2) "Requirements gathering" as taught in most accepted books and other texts is bullshit If you then throw in: 3) Steve was referring to the "Requirements agethering" as taught in most accepted texts (and, I'll add, practiced in many large organisations). Then we get: 4) You're referring to your own special brew of "Requirements gathering", which has little to do with what Steve was talking about! Unfortunately, when most people say "Requirements gathering", they refer to the standard, accepted processes taught in books and large consulting companies. And those, as Steve declares, are largely bullshit. I worked in a large, process-driven IT consulting firm for 4 years, and I can affirm without a doubt that the processes they used to gather requirements would fail miserably at attempting to produce a great start-up product.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  I think Yegge goes beyond that, though. He presents "make something you, yourself, want" as the key to making something others want. If I understand edw519 correctly, he is saying "bust your butt and do a lot of very hard work to see the world through your customers eyes," in order to to make something others want.
  - Spyckie 18y ago
    'Make something you yourself want' is what I would recommend to hackers in general. No offense to them, but when it comes to understanding what others want, they aren't able to do it, and often lament, criticize, put down, or devalue other people's actions or responses that don't make sense (instead of trying to understand them). For instance, many hackers can't fathom why so many people use Facebook (and don't try to understand that target population, but just ignore it or write a blog post about how Facebook has no value to them). If you have the ability (and I really think it is a skill that you have to train) to understand other people and their motivations and needs, then I would suggest doing what edw is saying. But, from experience trying to teach my own hacker friends, this ability is very hard to learn. Unfortunately for hackers, making what they themselves want often only caters to a small niche market in the vast world of people out there, so it might be useful to invest some time in learning how to understand other people, or team up with someone who has that ability in one form or the other.