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I don’t get your comment. You just confirmed that, indeed, you need a specific computer to publish Safari extension, which isn’t the case for Firefox and Chrome

I don’t get your comment. You just confirmed that, indeed, you need a specific computer to publish Safari extension, which isn’t the case for Firefox and Chrome extensions. It is a limitation and it’s completely unnecessary for the end user. If they’re so lazy to have a extensions-specific store they could at least offer an automatic wrapper that they run before publishing. I should not need XCode anywhere in my build to publish web extensions.

brutal_chaos_ 5y ago
I think the confusion here is need to own vs need to use.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  You need to own it in order to use it, and you need to use it in order to publish an extension for Safari. No confusion.
  - tehbeard 5y ago
    And before anyone claims u can just buy time on a cloud Mac... The cost for these and requirement from Apple for a min. period of 24 hours rental (something to do with Mac stadium?) mean you're funneled towards making the $2000 "investment" in a iDevice.
    - lstamour 5y ago
      If you can't afford to cross-browser test, and you don't have a Mac, I'm not sure why you're building an extension for a Mac-only browser then? Someone has to test it on a Mac, register for a certificate with Apple, etc. In the end, buying a Mac is the easy part? And there are services like https://www.browserstack.com/docs/automate/selenium/add-plugins-extensions-remote-browsers#introduction https://www.browserstack.com/docs/automate/selenium/add-plug... where you can basically rent Mac VMs on cheap monthly plans. Or GitHub Actions, as I pointed to earlier, has a free tier with free minutes on an automated Mac terminal.
      - contriban 5y ago
        I can’t believe what I’m reading. On one side Apple says they now offer a compatible API, on the other side you’re telling me dropping a minimum of $800 on a computer (+$100 annually) to release a free extension is the easy part. BrowserStack would be a good solution to test it, but unfortunately you also need a lot of preparation and XCode-specific knowledge to even get to a testable point, which you don’t get unless you own a Mac. The browsers that Apple claims to be compatible with don’t require anything more than WinZip.
        lstamour 5y ago
        Apple added requirements for their store to publish extensions, yes. They also added more privacy prompts. If you don’t test on MacOS in Safari, how would you know if your extension works correctly? Why not ask Apple to release macOS for any computer like Windows on x86? Why not ask for Safari to be published for and API compatible with Windows as on macOS? Why not ask Apple to ship Windows since mac-only APIs would be problematic? Fact is, Apple requiring a Mac to publish for a Mac-only browser is not a problem. It’s not even true. You can code sign for Mac from Linux[1], as I understand it. Worst case, a third-party service will step in to handle packaging and publishing the way we already do for cross-platform native apps and yet Apple will continue to expect devs to test on their Apple devices. I can run Firefox or Chrome on my Mac so it’s not like I’m missing out if you choose to not develop an extension for Safari and test it in Safari. I feel like you’re arguing that testing isn’t required if you have the right web standards, which is pretty much always false when there are privacy or other implementation details that vary by browser… 1. https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign 2. Apple’s codesign tool is open source: https://opensource.apple.com/source/security_systemkeychain/security_systemkeychain-55202/src/codesign.cpp.auto.html https://opensource.apple.com/source/security_systemkeychain/...
lstamour 5y ago
But you need Safari to test the extension and Safari only has these extensions on a Mac? This is Apple’s way of avoiding their store getting cluttered with extensions that haven’t been tested to work on Safari. And yes, it also encourages developers to buy Macs. It can do both…
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Have you ever looked at the Mac App Store? It is a literal dumpster fire.
  - herpes 5y ago
    Could you give me an example of this please? I'd love to see what you're referring to.
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      Here's one article about it: https://www.howtogeek.com/281849/dont-be-fooled-the-mac-app-store-is-full-of-scams/ https://www.howtogeek.com/281849/dont-be-fooled-the-mac-app-.... It's still pretty bad.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    Can you explain what you mean by “literal dumpster fire” because this doesn’t align with my own experience. I’ve used it for purchasing a number of apps recently and I saw nothing eyebrow-raising. So long as the app you want has been uploaded to the store, it works perfectly fine.
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      The App Store is OK for the apps you know are on it and you search for them directly. But the rest of the store is just junk and scams, mostly.
      - simondotau 5y ago

brutal_chaos_ 5y ago

I think the confusion here is need to own vs need to use.

jfrunyon 5y ago
You need to own it in order to use it, and you need to use it in order to publish an extension for Safari. No confusion.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  And before anyone claims u can just buy time on a cloud Mac... The cost for these and requirement from Apple for a min. period of 24 hours rental (something to do with Mac stadium?) mean you're funneled towards making the $2000 "investment" in a iDevice.
  - lstamour 5y ago
    If you can't afford to cross-browser test, and you don't have a Mac, I'm not sure why you're building an extension for a Mac-only browser then? Someone has to test it on a Mac, register for a certificate with Apple, etc. In the end, buying a Mac is the easy part? And there are services like https://www.browserstack.com/docs/automate/selenium/add-plugins-extensions-remote-browsers#introduction https://www.browserstack.com/docs/automate/selenium/add-plug... where you can basically rent Mac VMs on cheap monthly plans. Or GitHub Actions, as I pointed to earlier, has a free tier with free minutes on an automated Mac terminal.
    - contriban 5y ago
      I can’t believe what I’m reading. On one side Apple says they now offer a compatible API, on the other side you’re telling me dropping a minimum of $800 on a computer (+$100 annually) to release a free extension is the easy part. BrowserStack would be a good solution to test it, but unfortunately you also need a lot of preparation and XCode-specific knowledge to even get to a testable point, which you don’t get unless you own a Mac. The browsers that Apple claims to be compatible with don’t require anything more than WinZip.
      - lstamour 5y ago
        Apple added requirements for their store to publish extensions, yes. They also added more privacy prompts. If you don’t test on MacOS in Safari, how would you know if your extension works correctly? Why not ask Apple to release macOS for any computer like Windows on x86? Why not ask for Safari to be published for and API compatible with Windows as on macOS? Why not ask Apple to ship Windows since mac-only APIs would be problematic? Fact is, Apple requiring a Mac to publish for a Mac-only browser is not a problem. It’s not even true. You can code sign for Mac from Linux[1], as I understand it. Worst case, a third-party service will step in to handle packaging and publishing the way we already do for cross-platform native apps and yet Apple will continue to expect devs to test on their Apple devices. I can run Firefox or Chrome on my Mac so it’s not like I’m missing out if you choose to not develop an extension for Safari and test it in Safari. I feel like you’re arguing that testing isn’t required if you have the right web standards, which is pretty much always false when there are privacy or other implementation details that vary by browser… 1. https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign 2. Apple’s codesign tool is open source: https://opensource.apple.com/source/security_systemkeychain/security_systemkeychain-55202/src/codesign.cpp.auto.html https://opensource.apple.com/source/security_systemkeychain/...

lstamour 5y ago

But you need Safari to test the extension and Safari only has these extensions on a Mac? This is Apple’s way of avoiding their store getting cluttered with extensions that haven’t been tested to work on Safari. And yes, it also encourages developers to buy Macs. It can do both…

saagarjha 5y ago
Have you ever looked at the Mac App Store? It is a literal dumpster fire.
- herpes 5y ago
  Could you give me an example of this please? I'd love to see what you're referring to.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    Here's one article about it: https://www.howtogeek.com/281849/dont-be-fooled-the-mac-app-store-is-full-of-scams/ https://www.howtogeek.com/281849/dont-be-fooled-the-mac-app-.... It's still pretty bad.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Can you explain what you mean by “literal dumpster fire” because this doesn’t align with my own experience. I’ve used it for purchasing a number of apps recently and I saw nothing eyebrow-raising. So long as the app you want has been uploaded to the store, it works perfectly fine.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    The App Store is OK for the apps you know are on it and you search for them directly. But the rest of the store is just junk and scams, mostly.
    - simondotau 5y ago