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As a person who thinks for themselves, I find all these woke people very bigoted, close-minded and discriminatory. My opinions are attacked and unwelcome.

cloudfifty 5y ago
People are falling over themselves in this thread to blame "Woke" people, but there are barely any concrete examples here at all. It should be easy to provide if this is so blatantly fundamentalist?
bjourne 5y ago
That's how debate works! Opinions are SUPPOSED to be attacked! Your opinions are being attacked because people think they are trash. If you can't stand it then don't share your opinions.
goldenchrome 5y ago
I’m inclined to agree with you, despite your downvotes. Woke ideology is steeped in fundamentalism and it seems to have filled the void where religion used to be. Some people can’t help but be religious; it’s an emergent quality of humans in large societies.
- Animats 5y ago
  Woke ideology is steeped in fundamentalism and it seems to have filled the void where religion used to be. Now that's a useful insight. Needs more thought before replying further.
  - loopz 5y ago
    Ideology is logic without actual thinking, similar to belief systems and religion. Faith is realizing existence.
    - Animats 5y ago
      Is there a difference?
      - loopz 5y ago
        Many feel so. Beliefs are limited. But the feeling that make you get out of bed every morning, surrender and trust in life itself if you want to call it that, is on par with consciousness.
- akomtu 5y ago
  It's a cult, not a religion. The difference is that a religion forms around some highly complex and abstract wisdom that even the inner circle barely understands, and by the time it gets to the outer circles, the wisdom gets dumbed down to a religious pamphlet. A cult, on the other hand, is a much smaller formation around a fairly trivial secret that holds all the cult members attracted to the dim glow of that secret. For this reason I'd compare the radical woke crowd with a weak variation scientology. And woke is weak because their secret is a lie.
- late2part 5y ago
  Thanks for your balanced comment. I should clarify that while I do believe I think for myself, that's not to suggest that all woke folks don't. Although I'm sure some don't.
  - premium-komodo 5y ago
    In my experience, if you even gently approach something that you think is a false assumption in, not even a debate, but just a discussion in which there is not total agreement with someone woke, they may become so anxious or angry that you have to stop. Their syndrome is highly self-defending.
- listless 5y ago
  I got downvoted into sweet oblivion for making this exact point in another post. This whole thing is religious. In fact, it’s so religious that it’s caused me to question my own religious beliefs now that I’ve seen an actual religion assembled in front of my eyes. It’s so much like what I see in my own religion that all religion is starting to frighten me.
  - alessivs 5y ago
    George Steiner discussed this in «The Secular Messiahs» (part of «Nostalgia for the Absolute»): > [They]...are not only attempts to fill the emptiness left by the decay of Christian theology and Christian dogma. They are themselves a kind of substitute theology. They are systems of belief and argument which may be savagely antireligious (...) but whose structure, whose aspirations, whose claims on the believer, are profoundly religious in strategy and in effect. > (...) Those great gestures of imagination, which have tried to replace religion in the West, and Christianity in particular, are very much like the churches, like the theology, they want to replace. > The convinced Marxist, the practising psychoanalyst, the structural anthropologist, will be outraged at the thought that his beliefs, that his analyses of the human situation, are mythologies and allegoric constructs directly derivative from the religious world-image which he has sought to replace. He will be furious at that idea. And his rage has its justification.
  - tachyonbeam 5y ago
    I think most people just have a tendency to to repeat dogma they are exposed to, based on the groups they belong in. If you join any group anywhere, be it people who practice yoga, the burning man crowd, or an online forum about programming, you'll find that there's a hierarchy, with some individuals who are highly regarded by the group, you might call them thought leaders. The individuals at the top have certain beliefs, and most people in the group will echo those beliefs as dogma everyone should believe in, and try to suppress dissenting views.
    - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
      More than that, the thought leaders set the emotional tone of interaction with outsiders. The problem is that the US is an aggressively authoritarian country, and the default tone is violent narcissistic bullying. Unlike other authoritarian countries this isn't explicitly state sanctioned. It's more of a continually dramatised and modelled mode of relationship which is so ingrained in so many public interactions - from school to work to "self help" to corporate culture to mainstream media to social media to large parts of elected government - that it sinks into the background as a kind of unavoidable noise. It would be deafening if you'd never experienced it before. Because it's so common it's tuned out consciously, but still dominant unconsciously. The "woke" part isn't the problem. It's the copying of the dominant emotional ideology that leads to both left and right extremism, and also justifies excess corporate power and other horrors. It's all part of the same issue, but both left and right are only looking at small parts of it - and getting angry about those while missing the underlying issue.
- crackercrews 5y ago
  Professor John McWhorter has called wokeness a religion > Something must be understood: I do not mean that these people’s ideology is “like” a religion. I seek no rhetorical snap in the comparison. I mean that it actually is a religion. A naïve anthropologist would see no difference in type between Mormonism and this new form of antiracism. https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-elect-neoracists-posing-as-antiracists https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-elect-neoracists-po...
  - grahamburger 5y ago
    As a Mormon[1], this is interesting. Not because I disagree, necessarily, I certainly see the similarity between Wokeness and religion. But I think an anthropologist would see a difference. At the heart of the experience of being a Mormon (and presumably other religions, though I'm most familiar with this one) is belief in a Prophet (capital P) and a collection of scripture. If you ask any Mormon who the Prophet is, they'll tell you, and they'll all give the same answer. So, who is the prophet of Woke, and what are the scriptures? 1 Culturally, at least, if not really religiously. I'm about as much of a Mormon as Larry David is a Jew. EDIT: the article linked does partially answer my question: > There is what we could think of as a triple-Testament tome, consisting of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Between the World and Me, Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility, and Ibram Kendi’s How to Be an Antiracist. A box set of the three would take its place on coffeetables and mantlepieces nationwide.
    - rriepe 5y ago
      This is too specific. Look for the Trinity and you'll see it plainly. What lives in everyone's heart, created the world we live in and gives society its structure, according to them? That's what they worship.
    - lelanthran 5y ago
      > But I think an anthropologist would see a difference. At the heart of the experience of being a Mormon (and presumably other religions, though I'm most familiar with this one) is belief in a Prophet (capital P) and a collection of scripture. If you ask any Mormon who the Prophet is, they'll tell you, and they'll all give the same answer. So, who is the prophet of Woke, and what are the scriptures? I don't think the heart of a religion is a belief in a Prophet. Hindiusm is a religion, no one will dispute that, but that Hindus don't have the concept of a Prophet (big 'P'). Same goes for many other commonly accepted religions. The only thing that all religions have in common is "A core set of beliefs, agreed upon among their followers".
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  Its very much like religion, and also involves unwavering adherence to dogma that must be blindly accepted and is heresy to question.
vernie 5y ago
Wow very cool.
throwaway55439 5y ago
As a POC, I appreciate these woke people, even though some of their actions may be heavy handed. I wish there were more of them when I was growing up and being bullied by real bigots.
- Wanker_News 5y ago
  Exactly. Anyone who believes the biggest problem in 2021 is that some college students are being too "woke" somewhere is a fucking dolt. This website is filled to the brim with clowns like this.
  - wernercd 5y ago
    The problem isn't "woke college kids"... it's intolerance way PAST the point of intolerance. Racism in the name of fighting racism. Hate in the name of love. It's the religious fervor by the Woke Crusaders who are willing to burn, pillage, destroy, kill in the name of "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion" - and destroying justice, REAL equality and our collective future.
  - Der_Einzige 5y ago
    They're downvoting you because you're correct. Ignore it and know that you are right about this point.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  I am genuinely sorry to hear you went through that, and I’m glad to hear — if I’ve interpreted you correctly — that some woke people provided you their support. However, I don’t believe disciples of the woke ideology have a monopoly on opposition to bullying, and I think they are often bullies themselves. Furthermore, it appears that woke ideologues are not internally consistent with their opposition to racism. Case in point: the recent demotion of Google diversity head for anti-semitism.
  - bjourne 5y ago
    > Case in point: the recent demotion of Google diversity head for anti-semitism. Who is the "woke" party in this case?
johnny22 5y ago
"as a person who thinks for themselves" that what we all think.
ViViDboarder 5y ago
Who are “all these woke people” that you’re bickering together and prejudging as bigoted?

cloudfifty 5y ago

People are falling over themselves in this thread to blame "Woke" people, but there are barely any concrete examples here at all. It should be easy to provide if this is so blatantly fundamentalist?

bjourne 5y ago

That's how debate works! Opinions are SUPPOSED to be attacked! Your opinions are being attacked because people think they are trash. If you can't stand it then don't share your opinions.

goldenchrome 5y ago

I’m inclined to agree with you, despite your downvotes. Woke ideology is steeped in fundamentalism and it seems to have filled the void where religion used to be. Some people can’t help but be religious; it’s an emergent quality of humans in large societies.

Animats 5y ago
Woke ideology is steeped in fundamentalism and it seems to have filled the void where religion used to be. Now that's a useful insight. Needs more thought before replying further.
- loopz 5y ago
  Ideology is logic without actual thinking, similar to belief systems and religion. Faith is realizing existence.
  - Animats 5y ago
    Is there a difference?
    - loopz 5y ago
      Many feel so. Beliefs are limited. But the feeling that make you get out of bed every morning, surrender and trust in life itself if you want to call it that, is on par with consciousness.
akomtu 5y ago
It's a cult, not a religion. The difference is that a religion forms around some highly complex and abstract wisdom that even the inner circle barely understands, and by the time it gets to the outer circles, the wisdom gets dumbed down to a religious pamphlet. A cult, on the other hand, is a much smaller formation around a fairly trivial secret that holds all the cult members attracted to the dim glow of that secret. For this reason I'd compare the radical woke crowd with a weak variation scientology. And woke is weak because their secret is a lie.
late2part 5y ago
Thanks for your balanced comment. I should clarify that while I do believe I think for myself, that's not to suggest that all woke folks don't. Although I'm sure some don't.
- premium-komodo 5y ago
  In my experience, if you even gently approach something that you think is a false assumption in, not even a debate, but just a discussion in which there is not total agreement with someone woke, they may become so anxious or angry that you have to stop. Their syndrome is highly self-defending.
listless 5y ago
I got downvoted into sweet oblivion for making this exact point in another post. This whole thing is religious. In fact, it’s so religious that it’s caused me to question my own religious beliefs now that I’ve seen an actual religion assembled in front of my eyes. It’s so much like what I see in my own religion that all religion is starting to frighten me.
- alessivs 5y ago
  George Steiner discussed this in «The Secular Messiahs» (part of «Nostalgia for the Absolute»): > [They]...are not only attempts to fill the emptiness left by the decay of Christian theology and Christian dogma. They are themselves a kind of substitute theology. They are systems of belief and argument which may be savagely antireligious (...) but whose structure, whose aspirations, whose claims on the believer, are profoundly religious in strategy and in effect. > (...) Those great gestures of imagination, which have tried to replace religion in the West, and Christianity in particular, are very much like the churches, like the theology, they want to replace. > The convinced Marxist, the practising psychoanalyst, the structural anthropologist, will be outraged at the thought that his beliefs, that his analyses of the human situation, are mythologies and allegoric constructs directly derivative from the religious world-image which he has sought to replace. He will be furious at that idea. And his rage has its justification.
- tachyonbeam 5y ago
  I think most people just have a tendency to to repeat dogma they are exposed to, based on the groups they belong in. If you join any group anywhere, be it people who practice yoga, the burning man crowd, or an online forum about programming, you'll find that there's a hierarchy, with some individuals who are highly regarded by the group, you might call them thought leaders. The individuals at the top have certain beliefs, and most people in the group will echo those beliefs as dogma everyone should believe in, and try to suppress dissenting views.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    More than that, the thought leaders set the emotional tone of interaction with outsiders. The problem is that the US is an aggressively authoritarian country, and the default tone is violent narcissistic bullying. Unlike other authoritarian countries this isn't explicitly state sanctioned. It's more of a continually dramatised and modelled mode of relationship which is so ingrained in so many public interactions - from school to work to "self help" to corporate culture to mainstream media to social media to large parts of elected government - that it sinks into the background as a kind of unavoidable noise. It would be deafening if you'd never experienced it before. Because it's so common it's tuned out consciously, but still dominant unconsciously. The "woke" part isn't the problem. It's the copying of the dominant emotional ideology that leads to both left and right extremism, and also justifies excess corporate power and other horrors. It's all part of the same issue, but both left and right are only looking at small parts of it - and getting angry about those while missing the underlying issue.
crackercrews 5y ago
Professor John McWhorter has called wokeness a religion > Something must be understood: I do not mean that these people’s ideology is “like” a religion. I seek no rhetorical snap in the comparison. I mean that it actually is a religion. A naïve anthropologist would see no difference in type between Mormonism and this new form of antiracism. https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-elect-neoracists-posing-as-antiracists https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-elect-neoracists-po...
- grahamburger 5y ago
  As a Mormon[1], this is interesting. Not because I disagree, necessarily, I certainly see the similarity between Wokeness and religion. But I think an anthropologist would see a difference. At the heart of the experience of being a Mormon (and presumably other religions, though I'm most familiar with this one) is belief in a Prophet (capital P) and a collection of scripture. If you ask any Mormon who the Prophet is, they'll tell you, and they'll all give the same answer. So, who is the prophet of Woke, and what are the scriptures? 1 Culturally, at least, if not really religiously. I'm about as much of a Mormon as Larry David is a Jew. EDIT: the article linked does partially answer my question: > There is what we could think of as a triple-Testament tome, consisting of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Between the World and Me, Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility, and Ibram Kendi’s How to Be an Antiracist. A box set of the three would take its place on coffeetables and mantlepieces nationwide.
  - rriepe 5y ago
    This is too specific. Look for the Trinity and you'll see it plainly. What lives in everyone's heart, created the world we live in and gives society its structure, according to them? That's what they worship.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > But I think an anthropologist would see a difference. At the heart of the experience of being a Mormon (and presumably other religions, though I'm most familiar with this one) is belief in a Prophet (capital P) and a collection of scripture. If you ask any Mormon who the Prophet is, they'll tell you, and they'll all give the same answer. So, who is the prophet of Woke, and what are the scriptures? I don't think the heart of a religion is a belief in a Prophet. Hindiusm is a religion, no one will dispute that, but that Hindus don't have the concept of a Prophet (big 'P'). Same goes for many other commonly accepted religions. The only thing that all religions have in common is "A core set of beliefs, agreed upon among their followers".
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
Its very much like religion, and also involves unwavering adherence to dogma that must be blindly accepted and is heresy to question.

vernie 5y ago

Wow very cool.

throwaway55439 5y ago

As a POC, I appreciate these woke people, even though some of their actions may be heavy handed. I wish there were more of them when I was growing up and being bullied by real bigots.

Wanker_News 5y ago
Exactly. Anyone who believes the biggest problem in 2021 is that some college students are being too "woke" somewhere is a fucking dolt. This website is filled to the brim with clowns like this.
- wernercd 5y ago
  The problem isn't "woke college kids"... it's intolerance way PAST the point of intolerance. Racism in the name of fighting racism. Hate in the name of love. It's the religious fervor by the Woke Crusaders who are willing to burn, pillage, destroy, kill in the name of "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion" - and destroying justice, REAL equality and our collective future.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  They're downvoting you because you're correct. Ignore it and know that you are right about this point.
yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
I am genuinely sorry to hear you went through that, and I’m glad to hear — if I’ve interpreted you correctly — that some woke people provided you their support. However, I don’t believe disciples of the woke ideology have a monopoly on opposition to bullying, and I think they are often bullies themselves. Furthermore, it appears that woke ideologues are not internally consistent with their opposition to racism. Case in point: the recent demotion of Google diversity head for anti-semitism.
- bjourne 5y ago
  > Case in point: the recent demotion of Google diversity head for anti-semitism. Who is the "woke" party in this case?

johnny22 5y ago

"as a person who thinks for themselves" that what we all think.

ViViDboarder 5y ago

Who are “all these woke people” that you’re bickering together and prejudging as bigoted?