6 ms·

Famously, computer science isn't a science, nor is it about computers.

by NikolaeVarius 5y ago

andorov 5y ago
computer science is applied math, and software engineering is applied philosophy
- giovannibonetti 5y ago
  Following that reasoning, wouldn't any type of engineering be applied philosophy?
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    Hence doctors of philosophy.
    - refactor_master 5y ago
      If what you’re doing isn’t research it isn’t technically philosophy. The more applied a field is, the less philosophical it is, because a general “way” of doing things has been established. That’s why you can have an entire undergraduate about “solved problems”, and only after that do you start advancing the field by tackling unsolved problems.
_wldu 5y ago
Is math a science? My CS education was largely math classes. Algorithms are definitely math.
- weaksauce 5y ago
  I would say no. STEM is science, technology, engineering, math. compsci is a math degree.
  - _wldu 5y ago
    Maybe math is a tool/framework used by scientists? Physics is another example that is largely math.
    - nicky0 5y ago
      Math is both a philosophical enquiry (pure math) and a tool (applied math & statistics). Physics as a science uses math as a modelling and analysis tool.
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        I've always parsed mathematics more as a language than a science, because it's not necessarily empirical.
        nicky0 5y ago
        Perhaps as a language combined with rules to operate upon that language, transforming true statements into other true statements.
    - phone8675309 5y ago
      Physics : Engineering :: Computer Science : Software Engineering
- mbrudd 5y ago
  Pursuing this question is quite the rabbit hole, but doing research in mathematics makes me believe that math is a science: you have questions, you collect evidence by exploring examples (i.e., conducting experiments), and you formulate hypotheses as conjectures. If you're lucky, your conjectures are correct and you prove them! Proofs are even better than the accumulated evidence on which theories in other sciences depend, in that proven theorems are immune to falsifiability within the axiomatic system in use.
kongolongo 5y ago
I guess not a physical science (although there was some crossover last year between some results in quantum computing and physics, there's probably lots other examples that I'm not familiar with too) [1] but it fits squarely in the formal sciences (which includes math, logic, etc). And it doesn't concern any particular physical computer, but it does have topics on what an idealized/ theoretical computer could do haha [1] https://www.quantamagazine.org/landmark-computer-science-proof-cascades-through-physics-and-math-20200304/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/landmark-computer-science-pro...
vladTheInhaler 5y ago
What would be a better term for it? Maybe "the mathematics of computation"?
- giobox 5y ago
  Some UK institutions (including some pretty respected ones) adopted the term "School of Informatics" and confer Informatics degrees instead of using the term Computer Science. I suspect the university marketing teams will eventually change this to Computer Science much like "Natural Philosophy" evolved into "Physics" at many places though... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics https://www.ed.ac.uk/informatics https://www.ed.ac.uk/informatics
  - waterfowl 5y ago
    KCL was Informatics and it was broadly classed w/ maths/'natural sciences' when I was there 10 years ago - according to a younger colleague they have since rebranded to CS.
- onorton 5y ago
  In the UK, the A level I took was called "Computing". My university called it that as well and treated it as an MEng rather than an MSc, but most UK universities still call it Computer Science I think.
- havocsupreme 5y ago
  Algorithmic Engineers? CS is essentially the study of automatic algorithmic processes that scale, so something along those lines.
shagie 5y ago
Philosophy of Computer Science [pdf] ( https://cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/Papers/phics.pdf https://cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/Papers/phics.pdf ) And the HN post about it - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20912718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20912718 There more than a few thoughts in there about what computer science is and isn't.

Famously, computer science isn't a science, nor is it about computers.

andorov 5y ago

computer science is applied math, and software engineering is applied philosophy

giovannibonetti 5y ago
Following that reasoning, wouldn't any type of engineering be applied philosophy?
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Hence doctors of philosophy.
  - refactor_master 5y ago
    If what you’re doing isn’t research it isn’t technically philosophy. The more applied a field is, the less philosophical it is, because a general “way” of doing things has been established. That’s why you can have an entire undergraduate about “solved problems”, and only after that do you start advancing the field by tackling unsolved problems.

_wldu 5y ago

Is math a science? My CS education was largely math classes. Algorithms are definitely math.

weaksauce 5y ago
I would say no. STEM is science, technology, engineering, math. compsci is a math degree.
- _wldu 5y ago
  Maybe math is a tool/framework used by scientists? Physics is another example that is largely math.
  - nicky0 5y ago
    Math is both a philosophical enquiry (pure math) and a tool (applied math & statistics). Physics as a science uses math as a modelling and analysis tool.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      I've always parsed mathematics more as a language than a science, because it's not necessarily empirical.
      - nicky0 5y ago
        Perhaps as a language combined with rules to operate upon that language, transforming true statements into other true statements.
  - phone8675309 5y ago
    Physics : Engineering :: Computer Science : Software Engineering
mbrudd 5y ago
Pursuing this question is quite the rabbit hole, but doing research in mathematics makes me believe that math is a science: you have questions, you collect evidence by exploring examples (i.e., conducting experiments), and you formulate hypotheses as conjectures. If you're lucky, your conjectures are correct and you prove them! Proofs are even better than the accumulated evidence on which theories in other sciences depend, in that proven theorems are immune to falsifiability within the axiomatic system in use.

kongolongo 5y ago

I guess not a physical science (although there was some crossover last year between some results in quantum computing and physics, there's probably lots other examples that I'm not familiar with too) [1] but it fits squarely in the formal sciences (which includes math, logic, etc). And it doesn't concern any particular physical computer, but it does have topics on what an idealized/ theoretical computer could do haha [1] https://www.quantamagazine.org/landmark-computer-science-proof-cascades-through-physics-and-math-20200304/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/landmark-computer-science-pro...

vladTheInhaler 5y ago

What would be a better term for it? Maybe "the mathematics of computation"?

giobox 5y ago
Some UK institutions (including some pretty respected ones) adopted the term "School of Informatics" and confer Informatics degrees instead of using the term Computer Science. I suspect the university marketing teams will eventually change this to Computer Science much like "Natural Philosophy" evolved into "Physics" at many places though... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics https://www.ed.ac.uk/informatics https://www.ed.ac.uk/informatics
- waterfowl 5y ago
  KCL was Informatics and it was broadly classed w/ maths/'natural sciences' when I was there 10 years ago - according to a younger colleague they have since rebranded to CS.
onorton 5y ago
In the UK, the A level I took was called "Computing". My university called it that as well and treated it as an MEng rather than an MSc, but most UK universities still call it Computer Science I think.
havocsupreme 5y ago
Algorithmic Engineers? CS is essentially the study of automatic algorithmic processes that scale, so something along those lines.

shagie 5y ago

Philosophy of Computer Science [pdf] ( https://cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/Papers/phics.pdf https://cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/Papers/phics.pdf ) And the HN post about it - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20912718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20912718 There more than a few thoughts in there about what computer science is and isn't.