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I'm surprised they're not taking the McDonalds approach and buying the land surrounding the charging stations, while only providing the basic infrastructure the

I'm surprised they're not taking the McDonalds approach and buying the land surrounding the charging stations, while only providing the basic infrastructure themselves like power, plumbing, and possibly a basic brick-and-mortar building that can be leased out. If everything goes according to their plan, these supercharger stations and the surrounding areas will be potential consumer hubs since they provide a steady supply of a temporarily captive consumer base. If you need to spend an hour charging your car, you may as well get some lunch and do some grocery shopping or whatever.

rm_-rf_slash 5y ago
Tesla would then also profit from increased property values over time, similar to the long term business strategies of mom-and-pop McDonald’s franchises.
- chronicsunshine 5y ago
  That's the strategy of McDonald's corporate, not the mom and pop franchises. Franchisees do not own the land the franchise is on. The McDonald's corporation buys the land and leases it to the franchisee. "McDonald’s owns thousands of iconic pieces of real estate around the globe. From New York City’s Times Square to Moscow’s Red Square, McDonald’s has ventured around the world, buying up prime real estate. Franchisees pay McDonald’s a cut of their food sales, but a much larger portion of McDonald’s revenue comes from the rent it’s paid on its real estate. After all, rent in Times Square isn’t cheap, but a Big Mac is. McDonald’s still takes a royalty on its franchisee’s sales but enjoys a much fatter revenue stream from the leases on nearly 33,000 franchisee-owned restaurants." - https://1851franchise.com/why-is-mcdonalds-considered-a-real-estate-company-2715077 https://1851franchise.com/why-is-mcdonalds-considered-a-real...
bryanlarsen 5y ago
If I recall correctly, Japanese and Hong Kong subways make more money leasing out space in and around their train stations than they do selling train tickets. A similar model could apply to superchargers.
- nopzor 5y ago
  correct; this is how their subway systems aren't a black hole money pit. pretty smart macro planning, imo.
michaelt 5y ago
Setting up the situation where you make more money if your cars charge slower and more often sounds like a dangerous game for an EV manufacturer to play.
- ben_w 5y ago
  I think, like the Laffer curve, there’s a peak income somewhere between “charging takes zero time” and “charging takes 100% of the time”. I suspect that peak is in the range 15-45 minutes.
- redler 5y ago
  Shorter dwell time is like faster table turnover in a restaurant. More customers will be better, financially, than fewer who spend slightly more time. Maximize wallets-per-hour.
- logifail 5y ago
  > Setting up the situation where you make more money if your cars charge slower and more often sounds like a dangerous game for an EV manufacturer to play. You mean like that time that London Heathrow airport ran a trial in which they specified every flight's gate number when passengers checked in, instead of only revealing it shortly (40 mins?) before scheduled departure? Retail revenues in the terminals dropped, passengers went straight to their gate instead of hanging around the shops. The idea was quietly dropped.
fiftyfifty 5y ago
I've definitely been to some US East coast rest stops that have a pretty nice food court and there were Tesla superchargers in the parking lot. Not every state has them but it seems like Tesla could build something like that where they need them and rent out the space without having to get into the restaurant business. I guess it could be tricky staffing up some of these places if they are pretty remote, maybe that's where more automation could come into play.
- jandrese 5y ago
  I've noticed Tesla charging stations popping up in places like Wawa and Sheetz, both of which offer a slightly more upscale experience than your typical gas station and usually include a grill where you can order lunch, coffee, or a frozen drink.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    They’re also colocated at Meijer grocery stores, Target, and in Texas, an HEB or two. Waiting for the day they install 21 station chargers at Buc-ees. https://buc-ees.com/about/ https://buc-ees.com/about/
paxys 5y ago
Up until very recently Tesla has barely had enough cash on hand to run its core operations, let alone fund expensive land purchases.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  But now they've got $20B in the bank. Investing in land seems to be a lot smarter than buying Bitcoin in my opinion.
brokenintuition 5y ago
The captive customer base could be really powerful. My wife and I took our first trip in our ID4 last weekend, which includes free charging at the ElectrifyAmerica stations for 3 years. Several of our stops were at Walmarts, and we'd go in and buy a few things we needed because we were there already waiting for the car to charge. It was the most time I'd spent in a Walmart in years
nodesocket 5y ago
Agree about buying up land nearest the most popular charging stations being a smart stategory, but not sure about restaurants. I feel like a coffee subdivision would be much easier to pull off and more lucrative.
colechristensen 5y ago
Presumably this would be easy to pivot to if the initial run is successful. McDonalds didn’t start with its franchise structure either. You would want to own the whole stack while developing the concept, if it were successful then franchising it out once all of the details of quality operations are worked out. i.e. you have to start a hamburger stand before you think about how your burger empire is going to run

rm_-rf_slash 5y ago

Tesla would then also profit from increased property values over time, similar to the long term business strategies of mom-and-pop McDonald’s franchises.

chronicsunshine 5y ago
That's the strategy of McDonald's corporate, not the mom and pop franchises. Franchisees do not own the land the franchise is on. The McDonald's corporation buys the land and leases it to the franchisee. "McDonald’s owns thousands of iconic pieces of real estate around the globe. From New York City’s Times Square to Moscow’s Red Square, McDonald’s has ventured around the world, buying up prime real estate. Franchisees pay McDonald’s a cut of their food sales, but a much larger portion of McDonald’s revenue comes from the rent it’s paid on its real estate. After all, rent in Times Square isn’t cheap, but a Big Mac is. McDonald’s still takes a royalty on its franchisee’s sales but enjoys a much fatter revenue stream from the leases on nearly 33,000 franchisee-owned restaurants." - https://1851franchise.com/why-is-mcdonalds-considered-a-real-estate-company-2715077 https://1851franchise.com/why-is-mcdonalds-considered-a-real...

bryanlarsen 5y ago

If I recall correctly, Japanese and Hong Kong subways make more money leasing out space in and around their train stations than they do selling train tickets. A similar model could apply to superchargers.

nopzor 5y ago
correct; this is how their subway systems aren't a black hole money pit. pretty smart macro planning, imo.

michaelt 5y ago

Setting up the situation where you make more money if your cars charge slower and more often sounds like a dangerous game for an EV manufacturer to play.

ben_w 5y ago
I think, like the Laffer curve, there’s a peak income somewhere between “charging takes zero time” and “charging takes 100% of the time”. I suspect that peak is in the range 15-45 minutes.
redler 5y ago
Shorter dwell time is like faster table turnover in a restaurant. More customers will be better, financially, than fewer who spend slightly more time. Maximize wallets-per-hour.
logifail 5y ago
> Setting up the situation where you make more money if your cars charge slower and more often sounds like a dangerous game for an EV manufacturer to play. You mean like that time that London Heathrow airport ran a trial in which they specified every flight's gate number when passengers checked in, instead of only revealing it shortly (40 mins?) before scheduled departure? Retail revenues in the terminals dropped, passengers went straight to their gate instead of hanging around the shops. The idea was quietly dropped.

fiftyfifty 5y ago

I've definitely been to some US East coast rest stops that have a pretty nice food court and there were Tesla superchargers in the parking lot. Not every state has them but it seems like Tesla could build something like that where they need them and rent out the space without having to get into the restaurant business. I guess it could be tricky staffing up some of these places if they are pretty remote, maybe that's where more automation could come into play.

jandrese 5y ago
I've noticed Tesla charging stations popping up in places like Wawa and Sheetz, both of which offer a slightly more upscale experience than your typical gas station and usually include a grill where you can order lunch, coffee, or a frozen drink.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  They’re also colocated at Meijer grocery stores, Target, and in Texas, an HEB or two. Waiting for the day they install 21 station chargers at Buc-ees. https://buc-ees.com/about/ https://buc-ees.com/about/

paxys 5y ago

Up until very recently Tesla has barely had enough cash on hand to run its core operations, let alone fund expensive land purchases.

bryanlarsen 5y ago
But now they've got $20B in the bank. Investing in land seems to be a lot smarter than buying Bitcoin in my opinion.

brokenintuition 5y ago

The captive customer base could be really powerful. My wife and I took our first trip in our ID4 last weekend, which includes free charging at the ElectrifyAmerica stations for 3 years. Several of our stops were at Walmarts, and we'd go in and buy a few things we needed because we were there already waiting for the car to charge. It was the most time I'd spent in a Walmart in years

nodesocket 5y ago

Agree about buying up land nearest the most popular charging stations being a smart stategory, but not sure about restaurants. I feel like a coffee subdivision would be much easier to pull off and more lucrative.

colechristensen 5y ago

Presumably this would be easy to pivot to if the initial run is successful. McDonalds didn’t start with its franchise structure either. You would want to own the whole stack while developing the concept, if it were successful then franchising it out once all of the details of quality operations are worked out. i.e. you have to start a hamburger stand before you think about how your burger empire is going to run