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You know I hear a lot of people talk about how religion makes people angry and hateful, but I don't hear nearly as much for how religion makes people more lovin

by hpoe 5y ago

You know I hear a lot of people talk about how religion makes people angry and hateful, but I don't hear nearly as much for how religion makes people more loving, more caring, and better; and I know it does because I've seen it plenty of times. Religion has helped me to be a better father and husband, it pushes me to be more interested in helping other people and constantly push myself to try and be a better person today than I was yesterday, while helping me to forgive others and be more understanding. I know that doesn't sell headlines as well, and that doesn't make for good internet arguments, but the fact of the matter is that religion does help people become better, help others, and provides plenty of value to society.

e40 5y ago
I think religious organizations provide an important social connection for a huge number of people in this world. That is invaluable. The problem is with religious leaders. They have repeatedly done terrible things. Falwell. Catholic priests. Many of the religious leaders from my family's past. All of the people supporting DJT and his ilk (supporting someone that literally has the opposite of their views). This duality is a real problem and I don't see it being address one tiny bit.
- hughrr 5y ago
  That social connection only works for people who haven’t discovered the internet yet. I’m in my late 40s and we mostly lurk on Meetup and through private connections. On numerous occasions I’ve had nights out with people I’ve never met before who’d be chased out of the village by pitchfork wielding yokels if you took them in the church. And it was great!
hughrr 5y ago
This is one thing I hate to hear every two minutes. Firstly, if you’re better to people because of religion then I am afraid of you. It only takes a moment for the fragile concept of faith to dissolve. I’ve seen it happen. Secondly, the nature of kindness and altruism is a concept separate to religion. Religion just piggy backs on it and pretends it’s a virtue only because it makes more subservient indoctrinated spawn. Please be a better person through introspection, thought and communication.
- Glavnokoman 5y ago
  Did you maybe think that you are in fact a more religious person than the parent poster? At least he was not trying to convert you.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Nope. He was putting tits on a coke poster to sell more coke. I don’t have a poster and don’t believe in coke.
    - Glavnokoman 5y ago
      Right. You believe in magnetic water and each time you see someone drinking coke you start pushing around the flyers.
      - hughrr 5y ago
        My brain's parser couldn't work that sentence out.
Joker_vD 5y ago
But religion is not necessary for any of that. In fact, depending on the exact contents of the religion's teachings, it may go directly against the task bringing up a kind, compassionate individual. Recall the medieval, Renaissance and early-modern Europe: pretty much everybody was Christian (for the then-definition of "Christian"), and yet the amount of bloodshed is truly staggering. And it's very well documented that the humanization of the European cultures were not really influenced by the churches: on the contrary, they lagged behind pretty hard and opposed it every step, even into the 20th century.
- jaldhar 5y ago
  The amount of bloodshed then is responsible for the humanization now by steadily removing the most violent and anti-social from the gene pool. How is a horse or dog domesticated? Humans are no different. And I think whiggish history needs some correction. Judicial torture (what the US constitution calls “cruel and unusual punishment”) for example was practiced in the secular courts long after they achieved independence from state religions. The story of how compassion became the paramount human virtue (if indeed it has) is a lot less linear than you think.
happytoexplain 5y ago
>I don't hear nearly as much for how religion makes people more loving, more caring, and better Really? I hear that much more than opinions critical of religion, which seem to me to be the minority opinion. It's a more controversy-adjacent opinion, so it may appear more prevalent and create more noise.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I'm not religions but I wonder how many of the people down-voting you have some externally defined and administrated belief structure (and accompanying in-group out-group membership definitions) that performs the same set of functions in their life but isn't a religion.

by hpoe 5y ago

e40 5y ago

I think religious organizations provide an important social connection for a huge number of people in this world. That is invaluable. The problem is with religious leaders. They have repeatedly done terrible things. Falwell. Catholic priests. Many of the religious leaders from my family's past. All of the people supporting DJT and his ilk (supporting someone that literally has the opposite of their views). This duality is a real problem and I don't see it being address one tiny bit.

hughrr 5y ago
That social connection only works for people who haven’t discovered the internet yet. I’m in my late 40s and we mostly lurk on Meetup and through private connections. On numerous occasions I’ve had nights out with people I’ve never met before who’d be chased out of the village by pitchfork wielding yokels if you took them in the church. And it was great!

hughrr 5y ago

This is one thing I hate to hear every two minutes. Firstly, if you’re better to people because of religion then I am afraid of you. It only takes a moment for the fragile concept of faith to dissolve. I’ve seen it happen. Secondly, the nature of kindness and altruism is a concept separate to religion. Religion just piggy backs on it and pretends it’s a virtue only because it makes more subservient indoctrinated spawn. Please be a better person through introspection, thought and communication.

Glavnokoman 5y ago
Did you maybe think that you are in fact a more religious person than the parent poster? At least he was not trying to convert you.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Nope. He was putting tits on a coke poster to sell more coke. I don’t have a poster and don’t believe in coke.
  - Glavnokoman 5y ago
    Right. You believe in magnetic water and each time you see someone drinking coke you start pushing around the flyers.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      My brain's parser couldn't work that sentence out.

Joker_vD 5y ago

But religion is not necessary for any of that. In fact, depending on the exact contents of the religion's teachings, it may go directly against the task bringing up a kind, compassionate individual. Recall the medieval, Renaissance and early-modern Europe: pretty much everybody was Christian (for the then-definition of "Christian"), and yet the amount of bloodshed is truly staggering. And it's very well documented that the humanization of the European cultures were not really influenced by the churches: on the contrary, they lagged behind pretty hard and opposed it every step, even into the 20th century.

jaldhar 5y ago
The amount of bloodshed then is responsible for the humanization now by steadily removing the most violent and anti-social from the gene pool. How is a horse or dog domesticated? Humans are no different. And I think whiggish history needs some correction. Judicial torture (what the US constitution calls “cruel and unusual punishment”) for example was practiced in the secular courts long after they achieved independence from state religions. The story of how compassion became the paramount human virtue (if indeed it has) is a lot less linear than you think.

happytoexplain 5y ago

>I don't hear nearly as much for how religion makes people more loving, more caring, and better Really? I hear that much more than opinions critical of religion, which seem to me to be the minority opinion. It's a more controversy-adjacent opinion, so it may appear more prevalent and create more noise.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

I'm not religions but I wonder how many of the people down-voting you have some externally defined and administrated belief structure (and accompanying in-group out-group membership definitions) that performs the same set of functions in their life but isn't a religion.