5 ms·

I happened to read the same information but reported by another publisher [1]. In that article, it points out that the energy density is only 60% of a tradition

I happened to read the same information but reported by another publisher [1]. In that article, it points out that the energy density is only 60% of a traditional lithium-ion cell, but that disadvantage is offset by not having to use much cooling device like the lithium-ion ones. The same information is represented pretty differently in this article, leading people to believe the energy density is better: "The new battery cells are claimed to deliver far more energy density than current lithium-ion batteries, without the cooling, heating or rare-earth problems they face." Still, I think is an encouraging news and I really love, just not quite a fan of the way they present it. [1] - https://newatlas.com/energy/gmg-graphene-aluminium-ion-battery/ https://newatlas.com/energy/gmg-graphene-aluminium-ion-batte... [edited for grammar]

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
I wonder if the apparent contradiction can be explained by the difference between the energy density of a cell (i.e. a single instance) vs of a battery (i.e. a practical aggregation of a number of cells)? I don't know how much space the cooling etc. takes up in a practical lithium-ion battery.
- zardo 5y ago
  In this case, energy density refers to the energy per unit mass, not volume. But your point still applies, for application in a vehicle you need to compare the mass of the complete battery systems, not just the cells in isolation.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    As battery designs are getting better, the difference is getting smaller and smaller. Turns out cooling systems can have very thin tubes with very thin walls.
mhandley 5y ago
You could easily imagine an EV with a hybrid battery pack consisting of 2/3 Li-Ion and 1/3 Al-Ion. You pay very little in range for the combination compared to a Li_Ion pack, but you gain flexibility. You then discharge the Al-Ion part of the pack first, partly because it has better longevity across cycles, but mostly because this then lets you charge that empty third of the pack very quickly giving enough range for an extra hour or two of driving.
- adrianN 5y ago
  Delivering that much power seems pretty difficult to me. EVs already charge at dozens of kW. How high do you have to make the voltages to keep the cables a reasonable diameter when you want to charge in the Megawatt range?
  - peteradio 5y ago
    Sounds crappy but what if faster charging ends up being accomplished with more cords and more charging ports? Want double charging rate? Plug in two cords.
    - ajcp 5y ago
      I can see this as something that is included in upgraded trims. Mid-level trim = two charging ports. Premium trim = 3! $$$
    - anonAndOn 5y ago
      You could definitely increase the ampacity if each charging cord was only one wire. Perhaps that's the key to quick recharges?
      - sly010 5y ago
        Also gives you something to do, while you are waiting. By the time you plugged in the 5th wire, the first 4 charged you halfway :D
  - 5y ago
dang 5y ago
That article was discussed a bit here: Superfast-charging aluminum-ion batteries outpower lithium-ion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205855 - May 2021 (8 comments)

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago

I wonder if the apparent contradiction can be explained by the difference between the energy density of a cell (i.e. a single instance) vs of a battery (i.e. a practical aggregation of a number of cells)? I don't know how much space the cooling etc. takes up in a practical lithium-ion battery.

zardo 5y ago
In this case, energy density refers to the energy per unit mass, not volume. But your point still applies, for application in a vehicle you need to compare the mass of the complete battery systems, not just the cells in isolation.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  As battery designs are getting better, the difference is getting smaller and smaller. Turns out cooling systems can have very thin tubes with very thin walls.

mhandley 5y ago

You could easily imagine an EV with a hybrid battery pack consisting of 2/3 Li-Ion and 1/3 Al-Ion. You pay very little in range for the combination compared to a Li_Ion pack, but you gain flexibility. You then discharge the Al-Ion part of the pack first, partly because it has better longevity across cycles, but mostly because this then lets you charge that empty third of the pack very quickly giving enough range for an extra hour or two of driving.

adrianN 5y ago
Delivering that much power seems pretty difficult to me. EVs already charge at dozens of kW. How high do you have to make the voltages to keep the cables a reasonable diameter when you want to charge in the Megawatt range?
- peteradio 5y ago
  Sounds crappy but what if faster charging ends up being accomplished with more cords and more charging ports? Want double charging rate? Plug in two cords.
  - ajcp 5y ago
    I can see this as something that is included in upgraded trims. Mid-level trim = two charging ports. Premium trim = 3! $$$
  - anonAndOn 5y ago
    You could definitely increase the ampacity if each charging cord was only one wire. Perhaps that's the key to quick recharges?
    - sly010 5y ago
      Also gives you something to do, while you are waiting. By the time you plugged in the 5th wire, the first 4 charged you halfway :D
- 5y ago

dang 5y ago

That article was discussed a bit here: Superfast-charging aluminum-ion batteries outpower lithium-ion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205855 - May 2021 (8 comments)