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I pay easily 40%+ effective tax on my income in NL. Not sure why you’re so dismissive of the poster.

by yunohn 5y ago

rorykoehler 5y ago
Congrats you are earning a lot. You should be grateful to be in such a privileged position few can dream of.
- yunohn 5y ago
  Not really, I wish I were. Here’s the NL tax brackets: * € 0 - 68.508 37,10% * € 68.508+ 49,50%
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    There is no tax free allowance in NL? Do you pay extra for healthcare or is it paid for out of that amount?
    - yunohn 5y ago
      Healthcare is paid from post-tax income. As a single person, I pay approx. €150 monthly. There is also a deductible of €385-885, and choosing a lower amount means you pay more per month too. There is no tax free allowance. There is general/labor tax credit, but it’s incredibly minimal and reduces with income: * €2.837 for those with a taxable income under €21.043 * €2.837 - 5,977% x (taxable income - €21.043) for people with an income between €21.043 to €68.507 * €0 for people with an income over €68.507
      - rorykoehler 5y ago
        TIL. I thought absurdly high tax rates were a nordic specialty. NL seems very wealthy whenever I visit. Are median incomes substantially higher than surrounding countries?
        yunohn 5y ago
        The Netherlands is a tax haven for corporations. Individuals bear the brunt of ensuring a high QoL. Median income in 2021 is €36.500, so quite low tbh. The only kind of income you can avoid taxes on is capital gains - i.e. investing in stocks or real estate. Obviously this is not feasible for the general population, and as such, most people spend their entire monthly income on rent/mortgage, kids, and living expenses. There is no concept of saving, because the assumption is that you can accumulate enough pension to live off of.
        rorykoehler 5y ago
        I have known many Dutch people over the years who have gotten a lot of benefits from the state from unemployment to housing. Some of it clearly fraudulently too. Seems to be unsustainable.
        yunohn 5y ago
        While I do not condone benefits fraud, it’s just a drop in the pond. Government projects are quite corrupt, and often go way over budget. Of course, this is a global problem as well. The main problem is corporate tax evasion. Pretty much every multinational funnels money via NL, while paying almost nothing. For example - IKEA, Walt Disney, FAANG, Uber, and innumerable more are all Dutch BVs for most global activities.
        rorykoehler 5y ago
        Sorry I agree with you. I didn't mean fraud was a big cost, only that social spending (including non-fraudulent) seems to be very high and not tightly controlled (which as a side effect allows for easy fraud). From the outside society seems very stratified. Plenty of Telsa's in Amsterdam and people with expensive tastes. NL is obviously a very wealthy place even compared to neighbouring countries but also has a large less wealthy population. This is another angle to the problem (in addition to the corp tax regime) because it unfairly puts the tax burden on people like yourself.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        €150/month for healthcare? Ya, that could work lost tax. Switzerland also pays for health insurance premiums post tax, but they are nowhere that cheap.
        yunohn 5y ago
        How much would you pay as a single person? And what does it cover? If you have a family, premiums increase significantly. In NL, €150 doesn’t cover emergency care, dental, eyes, or various specialists. Medicines and treatments are also part of the deductible.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        400 CHF/month. If it doesn’t cover emergency care, then what good is it? You can’t really call it health insurance.
        yunohn 5y ago
        Wow, 400 CHF is a lot! NL does guarantee emergency treatment will be provided, and the excess above the deductible will be paid by the insurer. Aside, I’ve had friends who moved and found that Swiss income taxes are also much lower than NL in most cantons. Is that true in your case too?
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        I haven’t lived in Switzerland for awhile but ya, their taxes are somewhat low, though I think their VAT must be high (hard to tell if it’s taxes or just a high COL). As an American, it gets harder to live in Switzerland because of the lower tax rate and high COL once you break through the foreign earned income exemption.
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      We pay for healthcare. There is a free allowance for "foreign skilled workers". They pay 0 income tax over the first 30% of their income. It's total and utter bs. So if you earn 90K, you get 30K net, and get taxed as if you earned 60k
- insert_coin 5y ago
  Society should be grateful he/she is so productive as to deserve it.
igravious 5y ago
Because many people in Western countries do not fully appreciate how well off they are in global terms. https://www.icalculator.info/netherlands/income-tax-rates/2020.html https://www.icalculator.info/netherlands/income-tax-rates/20... 37.35% Income from €0.00 to €68,507.00 49.5% Income from €68,507.01 and above Therefore if you are (for instance) paying 40+% effective tax on your income in the Netherlands you're clearly earning north of €70k a year. To put that in context – “You Are The 1%: If You Make $35K/Year Income” https://www.diygenius.com/the-global-inequality-problem/ https://www.diygenius.com/the-global-inequality-problem/ So that other person is being dismissive (though dismissive is the wrong word) of the poster because generally at these sorts of rates you're earning greater than 99% of the people on the planet. If you're earning greater than 99% of the people on the planet and you simultaneously think there's an injustice being done to you by the tax man then I would humbly submit that you could do with a reality check. And we're not just talking about in comparison to the so-called global south here, there are many many people in the EU and around greater Europe who would be thrilled to be earning north of €70k a year.
- yunohn 5y ago
  Income is usually relative to the person’s location. It’s not very useful to compare my situation to that of a person in the global south. Income correlates closely to cost of living. I fully appreciate that I make more money than “a lot of the world”. But I don’t think it’s wrong to ask that corporations and high-net-worth individuals, also pay their fair share and not just leave the burden to people like me.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    That is more the issue, well for me anyway; taxes are fine and the height is not really relevant but I do not want to be holding the bag here. If someone who earns a billion pays 5% why would I pay 40%? That is my only real complaint about taxes and I hear this from wealthy people: why would they if their friends do not? It is tax, not charity: except yes it is a lot of charity but it is anonymous so you cannot get charity kudos. So those who can avoid and you have a problem. Not sure how big the problem is in money, but I think many people would have a better feeling about forking over 40% if they knew the billionair around the corner is paying 60.

I pay easily 40%+ effective tax on my income in NL. Not sure why you’re so dismissive of the poster.

by yunohn 5y ago

I pay easily 40%+ effective tax on my income in NL. Not sure why you’re so dismissive of the poster.

rorykoehler 5y ago

Congrats you are earning a lot. You should be grateful to be in such a privileged position few can dream of.

yunohn 5y ago
Not really, I wish I were. Here’s the NL tax brackets: * € 0 - 68.508 37,10% * € 68.508+ 49,50%
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  There is no tax free allowance in NL? Do you pay extra for healthcare or is it paid for out of that amount?
  - yunohn 5y ago
    Healthcare is paid from post-tax income. As a single person, I pay approx. €150 monthly. There is also a deductible of €385-885, and choosing a lower amount means you pay more per month too. There is no tax free allowance. There is general/labor tax credit, but it’s incredibly minimal and reduces with income: * €2.837 for those with a taxable income under €21.043 * €2.837 - 5,977% x (taxable income - €21.043) for people with an income between €21.043 to €68.507 * €0 for people with an income over €68.507
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      TIL. I thought absurdly high tax rates were a nordic specialty. NL seems very wealthy whenever I visit. Are median incomes substantially higher than surrounding countries?
      - yunohn 5y ago
        The Netherlands is a tax haven for corporations. Individuals bear the brunt of ensuring a high QoL. Median income in 2021 is €36.500, so quite low tbh. The only kind of income you can avoid taxes on is capital gains - i.e. investing in stocks or real estate. Obviously this is not feasible for the general population, and as such, most people spend their entire monthly income on rent/mortgage, kids, and living expenses. There is no concept of saving, because the assumption is that you can accumulate enough pension to live off of.
        rorykoehler 5y ago
        I have known many Dutch people over the years who have gotten a lot of benefits from the state from unemployment to housing. Some of it clearly fraudulently too. Seems to be unsustainable.
        yunohn 5y ago
        While I do not condone benefits fraud, it’s just a drop in the pond. Government projects are quite corrupt, and often go way over budget. Of course, this is a global problem as well. The main problem is corporate tax evasion. Pretty much every multinational funnels money via NL, while paying almost nothing. For example - IKEA, Walt Disney, FAANG, Uber, and innumerable more are all Dutch BVs for most global activities.
        rorykoehler 5y ago
        Sorry I agree with you. I didn't mean fraud was a big cost, only that social spending (including non-fraudulent) seems to be very high and not tightly controlled (which as a side effect allows for easy fraud). From the outside society seems very stratified. Plenty of Telsa's in Amsterdam and people with expensive tastes. NL is obviously a very wealthy place even compared to neighbouring countries but also has a large less wealthy population. This is another angle to the problem (in addition to the corp tax regime) because it unfairly puts the tax burden on people like yourself.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      €150/month for healthcare? Ya, that could work lost tax. Switzerland also pays for health insurance premiums post tax, but they are nowhere that cheap.
      - yunohn 5y ago
        How much would you pay as a single person? And what does it cover? If you have a family, premiums increase significantly. In NL, €150 doesn’t cover emergency care, dental, eyes, or various specialists. Medicines and treatments are also part of the deductible.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        400 CHF/month. If it doesn’t cover emergency care, then what good is it? You can’t really call it health insurance.
        yunohn 5y ago
        Wow, 400 CHF is a lot! NL does guarantee emergency treatment will be provided, and the excess above the deductible will be paid by the insurer. Aside, I’ve had friends who moved and found that Swiss income taxes are also much lower than NL in most cantons. Is that true in your case too?
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        I haven’t lived in Switzerland for awhile but ya, their taxes are somewhat low, though I think their VAT must be high (hard to tell if it’s taxes or just a high COL). As an American, it gets harder to live in Switzerland because of the lower tax rate and high COL once you break through the foreign earned income exemption.
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    We pay for healthcare. There is a free allowance for "foreign skilled workers". They pay 0 income tax over the first 30% of their income. It's total and utter bs. So if you earn 90K, you get 30K net, and get taxed as if you earned 60k
insert_coin 5y ago
Society should be grateful he/she is so productive as to deserve it.

igravious 5y ago

Because many people in Western countries do not fully appreciate how well off they are in global terms. https://www.icalculator.info/netherlands/income-tax-rates/2020.html https://www.icalculator.info/netherlands/income-tax-rates/20... 37.35% Income from €0.00 to €68,507.00 49.5% Income from €68,507.01 and above Therefore if you are (for instance) paying 40+% effective tax on your income in the Netherlands you're clearly earning north of €70k a year. To put that in context – “You Are The 1%: If You Make $35K/Year Income” https://www.diygenius.com/the-global-inequality-problem/ https://www.diygenius.com/the-global-inequality-problem/ So that other person is being dismissive (though dismissive is the wrong word) of the poster because generally at these sorts of rates you're earning greater than 99% of the people on the planet. If you're earning greater than 99% of the people on the planet and you simultaneously think there's an injustice being done to you by the tax man then I would humbly submit that you could do with a reality check. And we're not just talking about in comparison to the so-called global south here, there are many many people in the EU and around greater Europe who would be thrilled to be earning north of €70k a year.

yunohn 5y ago
Income is usually relative to the person’s location. It’s not very useful to compare my situation to that of a person in the global south. Income correlates closely to cost of living. I fully appreciate that I make more money than “a lot of the world”. But I don’t think it’s wrong to ask that corporations and high-net-worth individuals, also pay their fair share and not just leave the burden to people like me.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  That is more the issue, well for me anyway; taxes are fine and the height is not really relevant but I do not want to be holding the bag here. If someone who earns a billion pays 5% why would I pay 40%? That is my only real complaint about taxes and I hear this from wealthy people: why would they if their friends do not? It is tax, not charity: except yes it is a lot of charity but it is anonymous so you cannot get charity kudos. So those who can avoid and you have a problem. Not sure how big the problem is in money, but I think many people would have a better feeling about forking over 40% if they knew the billionair around the corner is paying 60.