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But we don't even make use of the little choice that we have. And for example in Germany, you can choose electricity providers that only use renewables.

TeMPOraL 5y ago
Because people have neither time nor money for any of this. Most of the population worries about short-term things like "having food on the table", "keeping that job", "keeping myself healthy", "giving my children a better future, so that their lives aren't as hard as mine". We've just signed a new contract with our electricity provider in Poland. Renewable usage didn't even enter the discussion - none of us even realized there's a choice there. Only when reading the details of the agreement I realized the provider is committing themselves to deliver electricity from renewable sources. So now, I'm powering my computer with green energy, and so is likely my entire neighbourhood. Not because any of us made that choice - it's because the power company did. Systemic incentives are what's needed to save us. Getting a power company to go green is much more cost-effective than trying to make an equivalent number of consumers to switch individually.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
  > "giving my children a better future, so that their lives aren't as hard as mine" Although they'll have a pretty hard live if we don't do something against climate change. And yes, many people do not have the resources to do these tings. > Because people have neither time nor money for any of this. Many people do not have that, yes. But many others do, and they could start doing it and as they are probably the ones better off, their over-proportional influence as consumers would make a huge difference. Its a complete failure of the "middle class". > Systemic incentives are what's needed to save us. Well yeah, I agree that politics/elections are a better way. Its just that ... we do neither. We do not take our individual responsibilities serious, neither when voting, nor when consuming.
bluGill 5y ago
>n Germany, you can choose electricity providers that only use renewables. That is a false choice - unless electricity providers have wires all the way to your house you have no idea where the electricity came from. All you know is they buy enough renewable to cover what you use. However if you didn't use them the renewable power would mostly be generated at the same time anyway, just at a lower cost. The above isn't completely true, as the higher price you pay does get a bit more renewable power into the mix. However overall it isn't a big factor unless most people choose the same provider.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
  They're not more expensive. And of course it changes something when enough people change providers, as those providers then have more money to invest in renewables, just as you said. If enough people switch, coal power plants would have to shut down as no one would buy their elecricity.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >All you know is they buy enough renewable to cover what you use. And where is the problem with that? The coal plant you got your electricity from is the real sucker here because they didn't get paid and more people doing this is a real problem for them.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

Because people have neither time nor money for any of this. Most of the population worries about short-term things like "having food on the table", "keeping that job", "keeping myself healthy", "giving my children a better future, so that their lives aren't as hard as mine". We've just signed a new contract with our electricity provider in Poland. Renewable usage didn't even enter the discussion - none of us even realized there's a choice there. Only when reading the details of the agreement I realized the provider is committing themselves to deliver electricity from renewable sources. So now, I'm powering my computer with green energy, and so is likely my entire neighbourhood. Not because any of us made that choice - it's because the power company did. Systemic incentives are what's needed to save us. Getting a power company to go green is much more cost-effective than trying to make an equivalent number of consumers to switch individually.

j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
> "giving my children a better future, so that their lives aren't as hard as mine" Although they'll have a pretty hard live if we don't do something against climate change. And yes, many people do not have the resources to do these tings. > Because people have neither time nor money for any of this. Many people do not have that, yes. But many others do, and they could start doing it and as they are probably the ones better off, their over-proportional influence as consumers would make a huge difference. Its a complete failure of the "middle class". > Systemic incentives are what's needed to save us. Well yeah, I agree that politics/elections are a better way. Its just that ... we do neither. We do not take our individual responsibilities serious, neither when voting, nor when consuming.

bluGill 5y ago

>n Germany, you can choose electricity providers that only use renewables. That is a false choice - unless electricity providers have wires all the way to your house you have no idea where the electricity came from. All you know is they buy enough renewable to cover what you use. However if you didn't use them the renewable power would mostly be generated at the same time anyway, just at a lower cost. The above isn't completely true, as the higher price you pay does get a bit more renewable power into the mix. However overall it isn't a big factor unless most people choose the same provider.

j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
They're not more expensive. And of course it changes something when enough people change providers, as those providers then have more money to invest in renewables, just as you said. If enough people switch, coal power plants would have to shut down as no one would buy their elecricity.
imtringued 5y ago
>All you know is they buy enough renewable to cover what you use. And where is the problem with that? The coal plant you got your electricity from is the real sucker here because they didn't get paid and more people doing this is a real problem for them.