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Try explaining that to the "any death with Covid must be avoided at all costs" crowd. There is a good chance that the months preceding the global lockdown will

by ppf 5y ago

Try explaining that to the "any death with Covid must be avoided at all costs" crowd. There is a good chance that the months preceding the global lockdown will mark the high point for all forms of progress on wage, wealth, and gender equality, and that the post-lockdown world will strongly favour the already wealthy and powerful. It really makes me mad how predictable this has all been.

thnkOfT3hChild 5y ago
In 2020 your post would be flagged. I wish our politicians could do statistics.
api 5y ago
We’ve been on our way there for a long time my friend. The downfall of the US middle class started in the early 1970s. COVID may have accelerated some of those trends, but on the flip side it also vastly accelerated telework which allows people to escape cities with insanely high costs.
- ppf 5y ago
  >on the flip side it also vastly accelerated telework which allows people to escape cities with insanely high costs Not really. We aren't lucky enough to have space in our family home for an office for either my wife or I to work from home For that reason, I am very grateful that I work in a company that has allowed staff to work on site for the last year. I don't know what she's going to do when she comes off maternity leave. I'm sure that women less determined than her will just return to becoming the defacto childcare for the family. Teleworking will favour some and disfavour others. Edit: Your general point is, in my opinion, correct. Covid lockdowns have massively accelerated all that was going wrong, and stopped everything that was going right. Given that at least some forms of gender, wealth, and income inequality were previously going in the right direction, that is one of the things that has been stopped.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
    > women less determined than her will just return to becoming the defacto childcare for the family. Don't discount those women who stay home to take care of baby. I know many women that, after having a baby, realize that they're in a situation that allows them to hang up the rat race and settle into a more simple life of raising a child. How many YT channels and IG influencers flout their "simple" life and people flock to them? Now imagine you suddenly not only have the means, but a really good excuse to simplify and focus on things that you've come to realize in the last year matter more to you than work. That's where many women (and men) find themselves these days, especially after having many previous leisure activities unavailable. Some have come to realize they really didn't find actual joy from those things, so they cut them out. And it's why the "return to work" stats for women will continue to be lower than expectations for a good while yet.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Those people got played like a fiddle by the people who are too smart to let a good crisis go to waste.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Seriously. What does a politician win by ordering mask wearing and closure of non-essential businesses? Why the heck do people think that it's something anyone enjoyed doing? Some limitations imposed were of course abused to also hamper democratic processes in some countries ( of course not in countries where the people are the loudest on the matter), which is tragic, but so are makeshift morgues, and once the pandemic subsides populations will expect all limitations to be rolled back, and they will be.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    Serious money. You have a crisis of your own making and you need to "save" all the people who lost their livelihood because you are literally fighting the Black Death, which kills people in small shops but, by miracle, spares them in Costco or Best Buy. And this money needs to be distributed. And you are in charge of the distribution. What's to gain here indeed?
    - sofixa 5y ago
      I find your tone a little peculiar. > You have a crisis of your own making and you need to "save" all the people who lost their livelihood because you are literally fighting the Black Death, which kills people in small shops but, by miracle, spares them in Costco or Best Buy You are probably aware, but people need to eat to survive. So, when trying to limit community spread of an airborne disease, closing down everything is basically as good as you can do - everyone stays home or outdoors in limited groups, and the disease will just stop spreading. However people need to eat, and move, and the fire department, medical services, etc. are still needed, and you can't stop all of that. Is it really that difficult to comprehend why some things were allowed to stay open while others were not? And considering the example stores you used, you're probably American. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's local government who did the closing, but the the money to indeed save everyone impacted is coming from the federal government. How does a governor or whatever the equivalent is at the county level profit from the money the feds are giving businesses?
gremlinsinc 5y ago
"all costs" could be avoided if conspiracy nuts would just wear masks, stay home when not needed, avoid crowded spots, and get vaccinated. But "my freedumb" is more important than other's lives. So the only choice officials have is "force" us to take this serious since we can't be responsible adults.
- ppf 5y ago
  If only it were that simple to contain an airbourne virus! It's incredible to me just how quickly "not wanting to live under house arrest" has become a "freedumb", and sad how quickly people are willing to throw away hard-fought liberties in the name of supposed public safety. To briefly address your point - how did India, which certainly did not wear masks, distance, stay at home, or avoid crowded spots, only just have their "second wave" (such as it is, as it is very hard to find any actual data instead of emotionally-appealing news headlines and pictures), when countries that largely followed the rules (like the one I live in) had one over the winter? What happened to South Korea, once lauded as the example of what can happen if everyone would just wear a mask? There is very little in the way of a clear indicator that one approach is better than another.

by ppf 5y ago

thnkOfT3hChild 5y ago

In 2020 your post would be flagged. I wish our politicians could do statistics.

api 5y ago

We’ve been on our way there for a long time my friend. The downfall of the US middle class started in the early 1970s. COVID may have accelerated some of those trends, but on the flip side it also vastly accelerated telework which allows people to escape cities with insanely high costs.

ppf 5y ago
>on the flip side it also vastly accelerated telework which allows people to escape cities with insanely high costs Not really. We aren't lucky enough to have space in our family home for an office for either my wife or I to work from home For that reason, I am very grateful that I work in a company that has allowed staff to work on site for the last year. I don't know what she's going to do when she comes off maternity leave. I'm sure that women less determined than her will just return to becoming the defacto childcare for the family. Teleworking will favour some and disfavour others. Edit: Your general point is, in my opinion, correct. Covid lockdowns have massively accelerated all that was going wrong, and stopped everything that was going right. Given that at least some forms of gender, wealth, and income inequality were previously going in the right direction, that is one of the things that has been stopped.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  > women less determined than her will just return to becoming the defacto childcare for the family. Don't discount those women who stay home to take care of baby. I know many women that, after having a baby, realize that they're in a situation that allows them to hang up the rat race and settle into a more simple life of raising a child. How many YT channels and IG influencers flout their "simple" life and people flock to them? Now imagine you suddenly not only have the means, but a really good excuse to simplify and focus on things that you've come to realize in the last year matter more to you than work. That's where many women (and men) find themselves these days, especially after having many previous leisure activities unavailable. Some have come to realize they really didn't find actual joy from those things, so they cut them out. And it's why the "return to work" stats for women will continue to be lower than expectations for a good while yet.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Those people got played like a fiddle by the people who are too smart to let a good crisis go to waste.

sofixa 5y ago
Seriously. What does a politician win by ordering mask wearing and closure of non-essential businesses? Why the heck do people think that it's something anyone enjoyed doing? Some limitations imposed were of course abused to also hamper democratic processes in some countries ( of course not in countries where the people are the loudest on the matter), which is tragic, but so are makeshift morgues, and once the pandemic subsides populations will expect all limitations to be rolled back, and they will be.
- pandaman 5y ago
  Serious money. You have a crisis of your own making and you need to "save" all the people who lost their livelihood because you are literally fighting the Black Death, which kills people in small shops but, by miracle, spares them in Costco or Best Buy. And this money needs to be distributed. And you are in charge of the distribution. What's to gain here indeed?
  - sofixa 5y ago
    I find your tone a little peculiar. > You have a crisis of your own making and you need to "save" all the people who lost their livelihood because you are literally fighting the Black Death, which kills people in small shops but, by miracle, spares them in Costco or Best Buy You are probably aware, but people need to eat to survive. So, when trying to limit community spread of an airborne disease, closing down everything is basically as good as you can do - everyone stays home or outdoors in limited groups, and the disease will just stop spreading. However people need to eat, and move, and the fire department, medical services, etc. are still needed, and you can't stop all of that. Is it really that difficult to comprehend why some things were allowed to stay open while others were not? And considering the example stores you used, you're probably American. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's local government who did the closing, but the the money to indeed save everyone impacted is coming from the federal government. How does a governor or whatever the equivalent is at the county level profit from the money the feds are giving businesses?

gremlinsinc 5y ago

"all costs" could be avoided if conspiracy nuts would just wear masks, stay home when not needed, avoid crowded spots, and get vaccinated. But "my freedumb" is more important than other's lives. So the only choice officials have is "force" us to take this serious since we can't be responsible adults.

ppf 5y ago
If only it were that simple to contain an airbourne virus! It's incredible to me just how quickly "not wanting to live under house arrest" has become a "freedumb", and sad how quickly people are willing to throw away hard-fought liberties in the name of supposed public safety. To briefly address your point - how did India, which certainly did not wear masks, distance, stay at home, or avoid crowded spots, only just have their "second wave" (such as it is, as it is very hard to find any actual data instead of emotionally-appealing news headlines and pictures), when countries that largely followed the rules (like the one I live in) had one over the winter? What happened to South Korea, once lauded as the example of what can happen if everyone would just wear a mask? There is very little in the way of a clear indicator that one approach is better than another.