4 ms·
Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%
by rudyfink 5y ago
Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepcion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc....
In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-masse, certain companies find it in their interest to exploit that asymmetry for profit.
In other words, a company could always impose a harm on all of its customers for its profit. But, now, if that that company imposes a class ban through arbitration, those customers cannot, collectively, seek recourse for that harm.
- csharptwdec19 5y agoIt's amazing to watch companies admit they abuse this pattern. A couple years ago I got into it with Comcast over an Identity fraud issue. When I threatened to take them to court for harrassment (I'd sent them more than what was needed to prove I never resided at the address in question) they tried to throw the 'binding arbitration' clause out there... When I told them I never was or would be a customer of theirs and thus wasn't held to their arbitration, they didn't quite know what to say next.
- 1123581321 5y agoWas this a conversation with their legal department?
- zdragnar 5y agoIs that really enforceable? Maybe. I suspect that customers are better off not going through class claims anyway, as few of them actually yield amounts close to the harm done, and lawyers walk away with absurd amounts. "Collective" is merely a tool for not clogging courtrooms; there really isn't any other benefit to consumers here.
- giantg2 5y agoCivil and criminal court systems are very overwhelming and just broken in general in my opinion.
- alpha_squared 5y agoAnother story on the front page right now[0] from the WSJ[1] seems to imply that arbitration clauses fall apart when faced with a mountain of arbitration demands (75k+). Amazon is now seeking to remove its own arbitration clause for customers so that these can be consolidated into a class action lawsuit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27356550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27356550 [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-faced-75-000-arbitration-demands-now-it-says-fine-sue-us-11622547000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-faced-75-000-arbitration...
- jquery 5y agoabsolutely brilliant
- tzs 5y agoSomething like that happened to Doordash a little over a year ago [1] [2]. Workers wanted to start a class action, Doordash used their arbitration clause to stop that. Over 5000 workers then asked for arbitration, which would have cost Doordash around $10 million in arbitration fees. Doordash then tried to get a judge to make it a class action. The judge felt that this Doordash was in this mess due to their own hypocrisy and declined their request. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135474/doordash-workers-forced-arbitration-william-alsup https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135474/doordash-workers... [2] https://www.courthousenews.com/doordash-ordered-to-pay-12m-to-arbitrate-5000-labor-disputes/ https://www.courthousenews.com/doordash-ordered-to-pay-12m-t...
- fapjacks 5y agoI interviewed at Doordash when they were just starting. I think I would have been like employee number twelve or something. To this day, I have not interviewed with a founder that repelled me more.
- setr 5y agoI believe there was a successful recent strategy for dealing with this clause by submitting a new lawsuit for each harmed user, to overwhelm everything (courts, company lawyers, etc).
- thathndude 5y agoSome attorneys are starting to specialize in consumer arbitration. The attorneys will eventually find a way to put the squeeze on these companies as they try to change the rules.
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- adrr 5y agoDepends who clicked the agreement and what the company bylaws of who can agree to terms. Some low level IT person will not have the authority to bind the company into an agreement and the injured party is the company. https://www.binadox.com/blog/clickwrap-held-unenforceable-national-auto-lenders-inc-v-syslocate-inc-2010/ https://www.binadox.com/blog/clickwrap-held-unenforceable-na...
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- kergonath 5y ago> Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This really ought to be illegal.