4 ms·

Qutebrowser. I get that the choice is there, people want it and Firefox is still better than Chrome; but (1) Firefox should no longer be advertised as free sof

Qutebrowser. I get that the choice is there, people want it and Firefox is still better than Chrome; but (1) Firefox should no longer be advertised as free software; and (2) it should be made abundantly clear what `enable DRM' actually means.

gjm11 5y ago
If Firefox is not free software because it is able to run un-free binary blobs on your computer, then the same is true of (e.g.) Linux.
- megous 5y ago
  Yeah, just disable the loader if you don't like it. Kinda unfair to call the whole system unfree for just being able to load non-free software.
  - francoisz 5y ago
    What put me off the most was that there was no warning: I had to know what DRM meant or run unfree software without realizing it. But, as was pointed out, this is also true of most Linux distrubutions, which is bad. There should be a clear warning and the default should be nothing unfree.
  - btdmaster 5y ago
    Unfortunately some of the Linux kernel mainline has questionable licensing too. [1] In short, [2] and [3] are probably linux-firmware territory in the mainline kernel. [1] https://www.fsfla.org/pipermail/linux-libre/2020-August/003400.html https://www.fsfla.org/pipermail/linux-libre/2020-August/0034... [2] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/appletalk/cops_ffdrv.h https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... [3] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/appletalk/cops_ltdrv.h https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...
    - megous 5y ago
      Some card's bundled firmware from 1996 that's not even compiled in normal distro kernel builds? :D
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - btdmaster 5y ago
        I see when you're coming from, but the last commit (in that section of the tree, granted, not the firmware itself) was 8 days ago. [1] [1] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/drivers/net/appletalk https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...
        megous 5y ago
        Please look closely. All the commits there are tree-wide cleanups, or automated patches, documentation fixes, warning fixes, and mostly adaptations to internal kernel API changes,... This is normal "noise" for all code inside the kernel. That's the reason why having the driver mainline is good. But try to find any other activity since the start of git history in 2005. It doesn't show the driver is in use in the wild. The hardware might as well be extinct.
        btdmaster 5y ago
        Maybe I'm being swayed by my ideological views on licensing, and I understand that pragmatism is important, but if it's not in use in the wild then is that really a good argument for keeping? The status quo is a sensible default, but if the issue at hand is magic bits that are not even licensed under MIT, unlike most of the others that are sprinkled throughout the kernel source, is the cost really that high? Then again, I fully understand that kernel hackers have better things to do than listen to my ideological quibbles and start removing kernel code that might be important to someone running a hospital with Xeroxes that only work with AppleTalk, but by that point what is the chance that the same hospital would at the same time be going around and updating all the devices to 5.10?
- francoisz 5y ago
  Most Linux distributions, sadly, yes; good point.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

gjm11 5y ago

If Firefox is not free software because it is able to run un-free binary blobs on your computer, then the same is true of (e.g.) Linux.

megous 5y ago
Yeah, just disable the loader if you don't like it. Kinda unfair to call the whole system unfree for just being able to load non-free software.
- francoisz 5y ago
  What put me off the most was that there was no warning: I had to know what DRM meant or run unfree software without realizing it. But, as was pointed out, this is also true of most Linux distrubutions, which is bad. There should be a clear warning and the default should be nothing unfree.
- btdmaster 5y ago
  Unfortunately some of the Linux kernel mainline has questionable licensing too. [1] In short, [2] and [3] are probably linux-firmware territory in the mainline kernel. [1] https://www.fsfla.org/pipermail/linux-libre/2020-August/003400.html https://www.fsfla.org/pipermail/linux-libre/2020-August/0034... [2] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/appletalk/cops_ffdrv.h https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... [3] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/appletalk/cops_ltdrv.h https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...
  - megous 5y ago
    Some card's bundled firmware from 1996 that's not even compiled in normal distro kernel builds? :D
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - btdmaster 5y ago
      I see when you're coming from, but the last commit (in that section of the tree, granted, not the firmware itself) was 8 days ago. [1] [1] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/drivers/net/appletalk https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...
      - megous 5y ago
        Please look closely. All the commits there are tree-wide cleanups, or automated patches, documentation fixes, warning fixes, and mostly adaptations to internal kernel API changes,... This is normal "noise" for all code inside the kernel. That's the reason why having the driver mainline is good. But try to find any other activity since the start of git history in 2005. It doesn't show the driver is in use in the wild. The hardware might as well be extinct.
        btdmaster 5y ago
        Maybe I'm being swayed by my ideological views on licensing, and I understand that pragmatism is important, but if it's not in use in the wild then is that really a good argument for keeping? The status quo is a sensible default, but if the issue at hand is magic bits that are not even licensed under MIT, unlike most of the others that are sprinkled throughout the kernel source, is the cost really that high? Then again, I fully understand that kernel hackers have better things to do than listen to my ideological quibbles and start removing kernel code that might be important to someone running a hospital with Xeroxes that only work with AppleTalk, but by that point what is the chance that the same hospital would at the same time be going around and updating all the devices to 5.10?
francoisz 5y ago
Most Linux distributions, sadly, yes; good point.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]