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> and readily available. Capital is readily available for the middle-class people living in middle-to-high-income countries (most of those people also happen t

> and readily available. Capital is readily available for the middle-class people living in middle-to-high-income countries (most of those people also happen to be white), the rest of the world (mostly non-white people) don't have easy access to capital in order to improve their electric grid.

pydry 5y ago
I'm not sure exactly where you are referring to with your ominous vague racially charged allusions, but if it's Africa or Asia then China is already supplying capital, know how, materiel and building out infrastructure.
- paganel 5y ago
  China is not supplying capital for the suburbs of Kinshasa to upgrade their electrical grid the same way as a Tesla-loving white suburb from the Valley can get easy money by just issuing some muni bonds. I’m not insinuating, I’m telling it as is easy, this is a regressive policy that hurts the poor more and helps those that already have (money and political influence). It so happens that the latter cohort is mostly white while the first isn’t.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    What if it pulls poor countries out of the dutch disease trap?
  - pydry 5y ago
    shrug they're very much out there financing and building power infrastructure and roads and selling electric bikes to the locals in Kinshasa. China wants access to their cobalt of course. Capital is perhaps not quite as easily available as it is in the valley and theyre not buying Teslas on credit but they're still transitioning to electric vehicles.
bluGill 5y ago
Those are the same people that will be getting electric cars in the next 10 years. The "rest of the world" buys the used cars the rich people are done with, so they won't be seeing electric cars for 15 years or so.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  Parts of the "rest of the world" skipped a lot of intermediate bootstrap steps and have jumped straight to "broadband internet" (fiber) because it is a far cheaper path to connectivity than bootstrapping from copper wiring or similar intermediate steps that richer countries saw due to fewer sunk costs and entrenched interests. Chinese manufacturers suggest (in their projects and investments) that there may be a similar step change around the corner (if not already here) where most of the "rest of the world" are going to find buying new EVs cheaper than most existing used (ICE) cars that the "rich people are done with".
  - bluGill 5y ago
    True, but I don't think that applies to cars. Cars are too personally expensive and don't last long enough for outside investment. Investing in fiber is cheaper than copper if you don't have anything in the ground anyway, and either way your investment should last 50 years or so which is a lot of time to pay it off. A car can last 50 years, but only with a lot of expensive maintenance. Also those poor countries benefit from richer countries giving up on otherwise good cars because they are not new anymore. If you are going to buy a new car, EV is the way to go, but if you can accept a used car ICEs will still be the way to go for a bit longer. Of course this assumes average person in whichever country. the rich will do what they want, and EVs are cheap enough that they won't really care if it makes economic sense if they want one.
    - WorldMaker 5y ago
      Some of these countries have barely functional gasoline infrastructure, but valid (and getting better) electric grids. EVs jump them out of an ugly decades old trough of bad infrastructure (and good money chasing bad). Chinese manufacturers already have found ways to produce sub-USD$1000 EVs. They barely meet US "standards", of course, as they aren't massive beasts of steel for a family of four girthy people, intended for a daily commute across the Ozarks, and cargo/towing capacity for thousands of pounds. But, they are a game changer for small, poorer families already in China and places that can easily import from China. As economies of scale continue to increase and Chinese car exports increase at world scale, there's in theory going to be an incredible step change just based on cars already available on Alibaba and before considering the effects that will have on car manufacturing competition.

pydry 5y ago

I'm not sure exactly where you are referring to with your ominous vague racially charged allusions, but if it's Africa or Asia then China is already supplying capital, know how, materiel and building out infrastructure.

paganel 5y ago
China is not supplying capital for the suburbs of Kinshasa to upgrade their electrical grid the same way as a Tesla-loving white suburb from the Valley can get easy money by just issuing some muni bonds. I’m not insinuating, I’m telling it as is easy, this is a regressive policy that hurts the poor more and helps those that already have (money and political influence). It so happens that the latter cohort is mostly white while the first isn’t.
- imtringued 5y ago
  What if it pulls poor countries out of the dutch disease trap?
- pydry 5y ago
  shrug they're very much out there financing and building power infrastructure and roads and selling electric bikes to the locals in Kinshasa. China wants access to their cobalt of course. Capital is perhaps not quite as easily available as it is in the valley and theyre not buying Teslas on credit but they're still transitioning to electric vehicles.

bluGill 5y ago

Those are the same people that will be getting electric cars in the next 10 years. The "rest of the world" buys the used cars the rich people are done with, so they won't be seeing electric cars for 15 years or so.

WorldMaker 5y ago
Parts of the "rest of the world" skipped a lot of intermediate bootstrap steps and have jumped straight to "broadband internet" (fiber) because it is a far cheaper path to connectivity than bootstrapping from copper wiring or similar intermediate steps that richer countries saw due to fewer sunk costs and entrenched interests. Chinese manufacturers suggest (in their projects and investments) that there may be a similar step change around the corner (if not already here) where most of the "rest of the world" are going to find buying new EVs cheaper than most existing used (ICE) cars that the "rich people are done with".
- bluGill 5y ago
  True, but I don't think that applies to cars. Cars are too personally expensive and don't last long enough for outside investment. Investing in fiber is cheaper than copper if you don't have anything in the ground anyway, and either way your investment should last 50 years or so which is a lot of time to pay it off. A car can last 50 years, but only with a lot of expensive maintenance. Also those poor countries benefit from richer countries giving up on otherwise good cars because they are not new anymore. If you are going to buy a new car, EV is the way to go, but if you can accept a used car ICEs will still be the way to go for a bit longer. Of course this assumes average person in whichever country. the rich will do what they want, and EVs are cheap enough that they won't really care if it makes economic sense if they want one.
  - WorldMaker 5y ago
    Some of these countries have barely functional gasoline infrastructure, but valid (and getting better) electric grids. EVs jump them out of an ugly decades old trough of bad infrastructure (and good money chasing bad). Chinese manufacturers already have found ways to produce sub-USD$1000 EVs. They barely meet US "standards", of course, as they aren't massive beasts of steel for a family of four girthy people, intended for a daily commute across the Ozarks, and cargo/towing capacity for thousands of pounds. But, they are a game changer for small, poorer families already in China and places that can easily import from China. As economies of scale continue to increase and Chinese car exports increase at world scale, there's in theory going to be an incredible step change just based on cars already available on Alibaba and before considering the effects that will have on car manufacturing competition.