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Supply and demand. Everyone has a capable smart phone now. This removes the middle market for cameras, and only the pro/prosumer high end cameras which adds al

Supply and demand. Everyone has a capable smart phone now. This removes the middle market for cameras, and only the pro/prosumer high end cameras which adds all sorts of bells and whistles.

gruez 5y ago
Isn't that more "economy of scale" than "supply and demand"? The latter only really works as an explanation when there's a supply/demand shock (ie. surge in demand or crash in supply).
mc32 5y ago
But... shouldn't there a "thriving" market of used lenses as people have moved to phone camera only ditching the old D/SLRs? Or were most of the dedicated cameras point-and-shoot with a kit zoom lens?
- khuey 5y ago
  I don't think we've yet gotten to the point where everybody is unloading their old consumer-level DSLR equipment that they no longer use because their cell phone camera is almost as good. Give it another 5-10 years.
- kemayo 5y ago
  Article doesn't present any data on that -- it ignores used prices entirely, discussing only what the manufacturer is charging. So, it's certainly possible!
- Kalium 5y ago
  I read it as implying that there are far fewer entrants into the market because people are using phones where they would previously have used mid-grade specialized equipment. The demand for mid-market equipment is drying up, but the high-end demand for professional equipment isn't.
  - mc32 5y ago
    I see. I think that makes sense. As the EOS "Rebel" market is replaced by phone cameras, the pros still need their equipment which tend to be the higher end equipment which would drive up the median price. I just looked at the Sony site and the 70/80-200, 200-400, prime 2.8s, etc., look to be in the normal range.
  - mark-r 5y ago
    Note that much of the demand for professional equipment isn't coming from actual professionals, just from ambitious amateurs who want good stuff.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- perardi 5y ago
  That’s an interesting point, so I went and checked briefly on what used Canon lenses are going for, at an online dealer that specializes in such things. https://www.keh.com/shop/lenses/canon--canon-eos.html https://www.keh.com/shop/lenses/canon--canon-eos.html And whoa. None of that is cheap. So, my guess? It’s as you said: a lot of the market was APS-C cameras, like Canon Rebels or Nikon D3xxx. And those were overwhelmingly paired with the 18–55mm kit lenses, and then with either a 70–300, or perhaps an 18–250-ish superzoom. Most DSLRs were effectively welded to the lens that came in the box.
- dmingod666 5y ago
  You have to factor in the additional people making YouTube content buying camera equipment.
kemayo 5y ago
Not sure precisely where you draw the prosumer line, but the article is also comparing the prices on the same models of pro camera over time and still seeing an upwards trend. I'd suspect this means that smartphones eating the middle-tier of cameras has had a spillover effect to also hurt the pro/prosumer market. I'd speculate that although even a cheap DSLR is still better than a good smartphone camera, the phones are good enough that the upgrade (and hassle) doesn't appeal to most people. Thus the high end market shrinks despite not being competed with on its own terms.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  I can confirm that with phone cameras (especially iPhone) where they are now, I feel no need to bring my 8 year old DSLR anywhere any more.
- eloff 5y ago
  Honestly the weight doesn't appeal to me. I own a lovely DSLR, but I don't take it anywhere because I don't like lugging it around. The smartphone serves most of my needs in a camera. Yeah the photos aren't as good, but they're good enough.
- sdenton4 5y ago
  I wouldn't be shocked if the wide bottom of the demand pyramid was doing a lot of work to support the tiny, pointy top... Economies of scale on lens and body production. For example, with lenses, you can produce a thousand lenses with somewhat random quality, sell the best ones to the pro market, and then sell the not quite as good ones to the cheaper end of the market. When you take out there low end market, you then need to either produce more consistent high end lenses, or raise prices since the low end market isn't there to buy the lower quality outputs.
underwater 5y ago
That's not what supply and demand is. Supply and demand would insinuate that there are less cameras available in the market, or more people are buying them.

Supply and demand. Everyone has a capable smart phone now. This removes the middle market for cameras, and only the pro/prosumer high end cameras which adds all sorts of bells and whistles.

gruez 5y ago

Isn't that more "economy of scale" than "supply and demand"? The latter only really works as an explanation when there's a supply/demand shock (ie. surge in demand or crash in supply).

mc32 5y ago

But... shouldn't there a "thriving" market of used lenses as people have moved to phone camera only ditching the old D/SLRs? Or were most of the dedicated cameras point-and-shoot with a kit zoom lens?

khuey 5y ago
I don't think we've yet gotten to the point where everybody is unloading their old consumer-level DSLR equipment that they no longer use because their cell phone camera is almost as good. Give it another 5-10 years.
kemayo 5y ago
Article doesn't present any data on that -- it ignores used prices entirely, discussing only what the manufacturer is charging. So, it's certainly possible!
Kalium 5y ago
I read it as implying that there are far fewer entrants into the market because people are using phones where they would previously have used mid-grade specialized equipment. The demand for mid-market equipment is drying up, but the high-end demand for professional equipment isn't.
- mc32 5y ago
  I see. I think that makes sense. As the EOS "Rebel" market is replaced by phone cameras, the pros still need their equipment which tend to be the higher end equipment which would drive up the median price. I just looked at the Sony site and the 70/80-200, 200-400, prime 2.8s, etc., look to be in the normal range.
- mark-r 5y ago
  Note that much of the demand for professional equipment isn't coming from actual professionals, just from ambitious amateurs who want good stuff.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
perardi 5y ago
That’s an interesting point, so I went and checked briefly on what used Canon lenses are going for, at an online dealer that specializes in such things. https://www.keh.com/shop/lenses/canon--canon-eos.html https://www.keh.com/shop/lenses/canon--canon-eos.html And whoa. None of that is cheap. So, my guess? It’s as you said: a lot of the market was APS-C cameras, like Canon Rebels or Nikon D3xxx. And those were overwhelmingly paired with the 18–55mm kit lenses, and then with either a 70–300, or perhaps an 18–250-ish superzoom. Most DSLRs were effectively welded to the lens that came in the box.
dmingod666 5y ago
You have to factor in the additional people making YouTube content buying camera equipment.

kemayo 5y ago

Not sure precisely where you draw the prosumer line, but the article is also comparing the prices on the same models of pro camera over time and still seeing an upwards trend. I'd suspect this means that smartphones eating the middle-tier of cameras has had a spillover effect to also hurt the pro/prosumer market. I'd speculate that although even a cheap DSLR is still better than a good smartphone camera, the phones are good enough that the upgrade (and hassle) doesn't appeal to most people. Thus the high end market shrinks despite not being competed with on its own terms.

Aeolun 5y ago
I can confirm that with phone cameras (especially iPhone) where they are now, I feel no need to bring my 8 year old DSLR anywhere any more.
eloff 5y ago
Honestly the weight doesn't appeal to me. I own a lovely DSLR, but I don't take it anywhere because I don't like lugging it around. The smartphone serves most of my needs in a camera. Yeah the photos aren't as good, but they're good enough.
sdenton4 5y ago
I wouldn't be shocked if the wide bottom of the demand pyramid was doing a lot of work to support the tiny, pointy top... Economies of scale on lens and body production. For example, with lenses, you can produce a thousand lenses with somewhat random quality, sell the best ones to the pro market, and then sell the not quite as good ones to the cheaper end of the market. When you take out there low end market, you then need to either produce more consistent high end lenses, or raise prices since the low end market isn't there to buy the lower quality outputs.

underwater 5y ago

That's not what supply and demand is. Supply and demand would insinuate that there are less cameras available in the market, or more people are buying them.