5 ms·

Rutin is basically an antioxidant that contains quercetin. Yet another antioxidant which “prolongs” lifespan by a negligible percentage compared to other antiox

Rutin is basically an antioxidant that contains quercetin. Yet another antioxidant which “prolongs” lifespan by a negligible percentage compared to other antioxidants and mice on a keto diet which avoid the oxidative stress from carbs in the first place. It seems we always hit a limit to lifespan studies. Unless we are able to modify the organs themselves, including the insulin response and mTOR, no single substance will ever prolong lifespan in a significant way.

The_rationalist 5y ago
You clearly didn't follow geroprotectors advances. Classical antioxidants are weak that's for sure. Mitochondrial targeted antioxidants are one millionth time more potent (this is NOT an exageration), as such they can double lifespan and eliminate entire classes of diseases such as Alzeihmer and Parkinson. Only a small minority of people are erudite in geroprotectors today and as such only this small minority will be part of the first generation to have significantly better ageing.
- airesearcher 5y ago
  Such as what substances? And are they available in supplements?
  - The_rationalist 5y ago
    There are many but the most studied one is skq1. It is marketed as eye drops for slowing age related eye diseases such as macular degeneration. It is also marketed as cosmetics to be applied on the skin as an anti wrinkle agent. Of course those uses are not enough geroprotective. The oral pill is in the work and will very probably be the breakthrough of the century though, it will take ~a decade before being FDA approved. However indeed the currently marketed cosmetics are the same active substance and can be off-label ingested orally (or sublingually). Anybody doing that should read the pubmed papers about Skq1 in order to make an informed decision. The other contender is Fullerene C60 which is bioavailable when diluted in oil (e.g olive oil) however it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier and hence won't stop your current neurodegeneration.
    - dozenmattr 5y ago
      Theres lots of info about C60 on Longecity but I think that forum is slowly dying now. Could you share where you're reading info about SkQ1? Is it another life extension forum?
    - swader999 5y ago
      Best source to purchase?
    - analyte123 5y ago
      MitoQ is in the same class as SkQ1 and is already marketed as a pill. Both are made up of an antioxidant anion and a phosphonium cation for getting into mitochondria. However, a rare controlled study against using a random inert anion with the same mitochondrial penetrator shows similar effects as the purported geroprotectors [1] suggesting that nobody has any idea how these molecules work to the extent they work at all. But it’s definitely an interesting area of research. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31139092/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31139092/
- bulletsvshumans 5y ago
  Links please?
tormeh 5y ago
I agree. Lots of studies seem focused on slightly slowing the accumulation of damage in our bodies over time, but this is a battle that can only be lost. Entropy always wins. What we need is tech to repair our bodies. The most promising candidate (in my uneducated opinion) is using gene editing to correct the mutations that accumulate in our genomes.
- faeyanpiraat 5y ago
  You need to change every old cell in your body to a young version of the cell every once in a while. The difficult part is the neurons, you need to change them one by one, and restore all their connections, and internal parameters. This is my theory on how you can “refresh” yourself while keeping you you.
  - adflux 5y ago
    To which extent does the brain not repair neurons already?
    - KronisLV 5y ago
      In regards to the physical changes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596698/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596698/ > It has been widely found that the volume of the brain and/or its weight declines with age at a rate of around 5% per decade after age 401 with the actual rate of decline possibly increasing with age particularly over age 70. I feel like that's probably a big one without getting into the functional changes. And just adding a bunch of neurons would probably be like giving your computer a new HDD. I think that the argument is about how it's important to preserve the information contained within the old neurons somehow.
foolinaround 5y ago
interesting to come across Quercetin, which was also trumpeted as the wonder supplement for minimizing ill effects of diseases like Covid19 See the Zstack prophylactic protocol from Dr Zelenko, where he suggests this as the better alternative to his earlier recommendation, HCQ, to act as an ionophore for Zinc.
- nradov 5y ago
  This paper explains the details of Quercetin as a zinc ionophore. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633
- ipaddr 5y ago
  You will also find it in red wine, onions, green tea.
alecco 5y ago
> mice on a keto diet There's no single mention of diet in the abstracts and non-paywalled versions. Care to share a link or screenshot to support your claim?
- spfzero 5y ago
  I think you can read the parent as saying the mice on the keto diet, were in another different experiment, to compare this one to. If I am reading it correctly...
colechristensen 5y ago
If we do increase lifespan or isn’t going to be because we found a magic pill, it will be because we found a few metrics we can provide external feedback to control an important variable.
perl4ever 5y ago
There was a study that claimed to prove that antioxidants can prevent the stress that causes sleep deprivation to be fatal, and that this fundamentally originates in the digestive system across quite different species. They didn't extend lifespan compared to baseline, but they restored baseline lifespan to sleep deprived subjects by feeding them various substances. They tried a bunch of antioxidants, the most readily available one was melatonin, I think, but it's not clear to me what it all means. If mice and fruit flies can live without sleep, would it work for humans? Do antioxidants help humans with sleep disorders? All I know is that over the counter melatonin does not seem to work any miracles for me. I have no idea if it would make me capable of staying awake 24/7 if forced. Lifespan is a separate issue, but you could look at eliminating sleep, if possible, as living 1/3 (or more) longer.
- raducu 5y ago
  What kind of miracles do you expect from melatonin? To make you fall asleep? Do not take more than 450micro grams, over the counter contains waaay to much melatonin. Melatonin is an antioxidant, but it is not a miracle hormone. It just signals the absence of light. Owls and other nocturnal animals get wide awake in the presence of melatonin, humans and diurnal animals get sleepy.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    I don't expect anything in particular. As I wrote, I've tried it and it doesn't do anything amazing. I had previously tried it on recommendation from a sleep specialist before I read about the idea that it reverses metabolic damage from sleep deprivation. Over the counter supplements usually seem to have way too large a dose, and I've read they can be very inconsistent too. The point is, I read this amazing study, and it may be somehow incorrect or even fraudulent, but it is what it is. Sleep deprivation kills. The claim is that via, not one, but any of several substances, that can be reversed, at least in lab insects/animals. I definitely am not advising anyone take any supplements. I want to clearly state that I don't experience any particular beneficial effects from anything I've tried. I just am saying that uncovering the reason why sleep is needed has to have world changing applications, or end up as a spectacular debunking, it seems to me.

The_rationalist 5y ago

You clearly didn't follow geroprotectors advances. Classical antioxidants are weak that's for sure. Mitochondrial targeted antioxidants are one millionth time more potent (this is NOT an exageration), as such they can double lifespan and eliminate entire classes of diseases such as Alzeihmer and Parkinson. Only a small minority of people are erudite in geroprotectors today and as such only this small minority will be part of the first generation to have significantly better ageing.

airesearcher 5y ago
Such as what substances? And are they available in supplements?
- The_rationalist 5y ago
  There are many but the most studied one is skq1. It is marketed as eye drops for slowing age related eye diseases such as macular degeneration. It is also marketed as cosmetics to be applied on the skin as an anti wrinkle agent. Of course those uses are not enough geroprotective. The oral pill is in the work and will very probably be the breakthrough of the century though, it will take ~a decade before being FDA approved. However indeed the currently marketed cosmetics are the same active substance and can be off-label ingested orally (or sublingually). Anybody doing that should read the pubmed papers about Skq1 in order to make an informed decision. The other contender is Fullerene C60 which is bioavailable when diluted in oil (e.g olive oil) however it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier and hence won't stop your current neurodegeneration.
  - dozenmattr 5y ago
    Theres lots of info about C60 on Longecity but I think that forum is slowly dying now. Could you share where you're reading info about SkQ1? Is it another life extension forum?
  - swader999 5y ago
    Best source to purchase?
  - analyte123 5y ago
    MitoQ is in the same class as SkQ1 and is already marketed as a pill. Both are made up of an antioxidant anion and a phosphonium cation for getting into mitochondria. However, a rare controlled study against using a random inert anion with the same mitochondrial penetrator shows similar effects as the purported geroprotectors [1] suggesting that nobody has any idea how these molecules work to the extent they work at all. But it’s definitely an interesting area of research. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31139092/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31139092/
bulletsvshumans 5y ago
Links please?

tormeh 5y ago

I agree. Lots of studies seem focused on slightly slowing the accumulation of damage in our bodies over time, but this is a battle that can only be lost. Entropy always wins. What we need is tech to repair our bodies. The most promising candidate (in my uneducated opinion) is using gene editing to correct the mutations that accumulate in our genomes.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
You need to change every old cell in your body to a young version of the cell every once in a while. The difficult part is the neurons, you need to change them one by one, and restore all their connections, and internal parameters. This is my theory on how you can “refresh” yourself while keeping you you.
- adflux 5y ago
  To which extent does the brain not repair neurons already?
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    In regards to the physical changes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596698/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596698/ > It has been widely found that the volume of the brain and/or its weight declines with age at a rate of around 5% per decade after age 401 with the actual rate of decline possibly increasing with age particularly over age 70. I feel like that's probably a big one without getting into the functional changes. And just adding a bunch of neurons would probably be like giving your computer a new HDD. I think that the argument is about how it's important to preserve the information contained within the old neurons somehow.

foolinaround 5y ago

interesting to come across Quercetin, which was also trumpeted as the wonder supplement for minimizing ill effects of diseases like Covid19 See the Zstack prophylactic protocol from Dr Zelenko, where he suggests this as the better alternative to his earlier recommendation, HCQ, to act as an ionophore for Zinc.

nradov 5y ago
This paper explains the details of Quercetin as a zinc ionophore. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633
ipaddr 5y ago
You will also find it in red wine, onions, green tea.

alecco 5y ago

> mice on a keto diet There's no single mention of diet in the abstracts and non-paywalled versions. Care to share a link or screenshot to support your claim?

spfzero 5y ago
I think you can read the parent as saying the mice on the keto diet, were in another different experiment, to compare this one to. If I am reading it correctly...

colechristensen 5y ago

If we do increase lifespan or isn’t going to be because we found a magic pill, it will be because we found a few metrics we can provide external feedback to control an important variable.

perl4ever 5y ago

There was a study that claimed to prove that antioxidants can prevent the stress that causes sleep deprivation to be fatal, and that this fundamentally originates in the digestive system across quite different species. They didn't extend lifespan compared to baseline, but they restored baseline lifespan to sleep deprived subjects by feeding them various substances. They tried a bunch of antioxidants, the most readily available one was melatonin, I think, but it's not clear to me what it all means. If mice and fruit flies can live without sleep, would it work for humans? Do antioxidants help humans with sleep disorders? All I know is that over the counter melatonin does not seem to work any miracles for me. I have no idea if it would make me capable of staying awake 24/7 if forced. Lifespan is a separate issue, but you could look at eliminating sleep, if possible, as living 1/3 (or more) longer.

raducu 5y ago
What kind of miracles do you expect from melatonin? To make you fall asleep? Do not take more than 450micro grams, over the counter contains waaay to much melatonin. Melatonin is an antioxidant, but it is not a miracle hormone. It just signals the absence of light. Owls and other nocturnal animals get wide awake in the presence of melatonin, humans and diurnal animals get sleepy.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  I don't expect anything in particular. As I wrote, I've tried it and it doesn't do anything amazing. I had previously tried it on recommendation from a sleep specialist before I read about the idea that it reverses metabolic damage from sleep deprivation. Over the counter supplements usually seem to have way too large a dose, and I've read they can be very inconsistent too. The point is, I read this amazing study, and it may be somehow incorrect or even fraudulent, but it is what it is. Sleep deprivation kills. The claim is that via, not one, but any of several substances, that can be reversed, at least in lab insects/animals. I definitely am not advising anyone take any supplements. I want to clearly state that I don't experience any particular beneficial effects from anything I've tried. I just am saying that uncovering the reason why sleep is needed has to have world changing applications, or end up as a spectacular debunking, it seems to me.