7 ms·

It’s a balance though isn’t it. If they hide everything away so as to respect your time, then another user will be frustrated by the constant magic going on in

It’s a balance though isn’t it. If they hide everything away so as to respect your time, then another user will be frustrated by the constant magic going on in the background. Even you might want more prompts in some situations. Maybe some applications could have an alert mode, similar to logging levels. But then it will probably get more buggy. Honestly, I rarely get annoyed by the number of popups in most of my software. I’ll happily take a few extra dialog boxes for extra control.

the_af 5y ago
I think this is it. The extreme alternative to "device, please don't ask me when you want to update something, just do it" is losing control of your computer. If you're comfortable, like the author mentions, having your digital "home" be away from your devices, to "live in the cloud", I guess this doesn't matter (at least, while your favorite cloud providers and services don't shut down taking all your data with them, decide to hike prices, or ban you for breaking some ToS rule). If you want to fully own your computer, it matters. You don't want to give away all control over it.
- MereInterest 5y ago
  I don't think those are the only options. For example, Linux Mint shows an icon in the system tray to indicate when repository updates are available. I fully own the computer, and it is my choice if/when to apply updates. However, that doesn't imply that each individual program needs to yell at me at startup to get updates.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Yes, that's why I mentioned it as the extreme alternative. An option more in the middle is a gentle, non urgent, non nagging reminder. But what about security updates, though?
    - KeepFlying 5y ago
      For security updates it still depends on risk though. A flaw in my browser is extremely high risk and I require it fixed and updated quickly. But a flaw in my SSH server that is only accessible from behind a VPN is lower. And the risk is lower still if it's a flaw in a feature which I do not use. I don't see an easy solution of course, it's a hard problem. But I wish that I had more granular control over what and when I update, and was given a clearer way to see the impacts of the update so I could weigh risk.
    - marrs 5y ago
      On Debian Stable, pretty much all updates are security updates.
amelius 5y ago
> If they hide everything away so as to respect your time, then another user will be frustrated by the constant magic going on in the background. How did we update software in the 80s? Simple, by taking an action: inserting the floppy with the new software, starting the update program, etc. Why can't it be like that? (Except the floppies replaced by opening a menu and clicking "update") Why do updates have to be performed at a pace controlled by the vendor of the software and why do I need to be reminded about updates? I'll just install them when I think I need them, thank you.
- harikb 5y ago
  Well, there is value in an upgrader that keeps everything up to date. But we didn’t get that either - at least on desktops.
  - amelius 5y ago
    I don't agree. Updating is not always an improvement. Even if only the UI is affected: often you just want things to be the same.
    - catlifeonmars 5y ago
      What about security updates?
      - marrs 5y ago
        They should be separate. On a well implemented system, you’d be able to apply those automatically
        mr_toad 5y ago
        Most Linux systems have the option to auto apply security updates.
    - catlifeonmars 5y ago
GekkePrutser 5y ago
The notification center or whatever it's called that's available in pretty much every modern OS would be a good location for such stuff. It's available, retrievable and not in the way when you don't want it.
KeepFlying 5y ago
I'm generally in favor of more control too. Though that control extends to wanting to be able to control when my software updates and when I get to have new features, settings,etc. My comment above is more of a rant than a recommendation.
SamBam 5y ago
It would be lovely if it became a standard part of everybody's work day to spent 15 minutes doing TLC to their computer. You'd clear away all the stubs of work, and the computer would say "Hi! Did you have a good work day? Here are a few things that would be great for you to do: 1. Upgrade these two apps 2. Do you want to check out how Dark Mode works? No? Ok 3. You've had these 46 tabs open since that one day six weeks ago you got into the idea of building your own treehouse. Want me to save them all in a notebook entry and remind you about it next summer?
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Really, any machine needs maintenance. Even an electric stove or a microwave needs an occasional clean if it gets dirty. Why should computers be the only special appliance that needs no maintenance whatsoever?

the_af 5y ago

I think this is it. The extreme alternative to "device, please don't ask me when you want to update something, just do it" is losing control of your computer. If you're comfortable, like the author mentions, having your digital "home" be away from your devices, to "live in the cloud", I guess this doesn't matter (at least, while your favorite cloud providers and services don't shut down taking all your data with them, decide to hike prices, or ban you for breaking some ToS rule). If you want to fully own your computer, it matters. You don't want to give away all control over it.

MereInterest 5y ago
I don't think those are the only options. For example, Linux Mint shows an icon in the system tray to indicate when repository updates are available. I fully own the computer, and it is my choice if/when to apply updates. However, that doesn't imply that each individual program needs to yell at me at startup to get updates.
- the_af 5y ago
  Yes, that's why I mentioned it as the extreme alternative. An option more in the middle is a gentle, non urgent, non nagging reminder. But what about security updates, though?
  - KeepFlying 5y ago
    For security updates it still depends on risk though. A flaw in my browser is extremely high risk and I require it fixed and updated quickly. But a flaw in my SSH server that is only accessible from behind a VPN is lower. And the risk is lower still if it's a flaw in a feature which I do not use. I don't see an easy solution of course, it's a hard problem. But I wish that I had more granular control over what and when I update, and was given a clearer way to see the impacts of the update so I could weigh risk.
  - marrs 5y ago
    On Debian Stable, pretty much all updates are security updates.

amelius 5y ago

> If they hide everything away so as to respect your time, then another user will be frustrated by the constant magic going on in the background. How did we update software in the 80s? Simple, by taking an action: inserting the floppy with the new software, starting the update program, etc. Why can't it be like that? (Except the floppies replaced by opening a menu and clicking "update") Why do updates have to be performed at a pace controlled by the vendor of the software and why do I need to be reminded about updates? I'll just install them when I think I need them, thank you.

harikb 5y ago
Well, there is value in an upgrader that keeps everything up to date. But we didn’t get that either - at least on desktops.
- amelius 5y ago
  I don't agree. Updating is not always an improvement. Even if only the UI is affected: often you just want things to be the same.
  - catlifeonmars 5y ago
    What about security updates?
    - marrs 5y ago
      They should be separate. On a well implemented system, you’d be able to apply those automatically
      - mr_toad 5y ago
        Most Linux systems have the option to auto apply security updates.
  - catlifeonmars 5y ago

GekkePrutser 5y ago

The notification center or whatever it's called that's available in pretty much every modern OS would be a good location for such stuff. It's available, retrievable and not in the way when you don't want it.

KeepFlying 5y ago

I'm generally in favor of more control too. Though that control extends to wanting to be able to control when my software updates and when I get to have new features, settings,etc. My comment above is more of a rant than a recommendation.

SamBam 5y ago

It would be lovely if it became a standard part of everybody's work day to spent 15 minutes doing TLC to their computer. You'd clear away all the stubs of work, and the computer would say "Hi! Did you have a good work day? Here are a few things that would be great for you to do: 1. Upgrade these two apps 2. Do you want to check out how Dark Mode works? No? Ok 3. You've had these 46 tabs open since that one day six weeks ago you got into the idea of building your own treehouse. Want me to save them all in a notebook entry and remind you about it next summer?

selfhoster11 5y ago
Really, any machine needs maintenance. Even an electric stove or a microwave needs an occasional clean if it gets dirty. Why should computers be the only special appliance that needs no maintenance whatsoever?