7 ms·

There's several reasons why everyone wants you to install the app, some of which aren't sketchy.

jfengel 5y ago
Seriously, what are they? Every time I get pointed at an app, I can only think of https://xkcd.com/1174/ https://xkcd.com/1174/
- toast0 5y ago
  Many (most?) apps don't do it, but the useful feature for me that's not possible with a web page is reliable, unobtrusive, background updates. Things like weather (with or without current coarse location), sports scores, headline news benefit from up to the minute data fetches, but older data is still useful. For communication apps, often people would like notifications on inbound messages, so that can fit with web push apis to get data; but if you don't want notifications, you can't consistently make messages available to read offline.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't have to involve the user, the data will be there and not accidentally deleted which means that the presence of the app is as good as username and password. 3) Immersive experience means better user experience. The UI becomes part of the Phone's UI instead of another App's UI's sub UI. A well designed app is very effective. I haven't seen a well designed mobile Web App, Web is great for websites and "possible to do" Mobile Web Apps. 4) Smaller download sizes, faster launches. A website would usually download a few MB of scripts and images, an App without bloated frameworks would be easily around that size and will download it only once. It will be ready to use in less than 0.5s every time. 5) Any advanced stuff is done much better natively even if it is possible to do through the browser. This is because the browser put extra boundaries around the boundaries that has due to the OS boundaries.
  - beagle3 5y ago
    6) notifications. Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu.
    - Vrondi 5y ago
      This exists on Android browsers as well (and has for years).
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      >Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu. As I said: >WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. Most people don't know about that functionality, you need to teach them. It would have been cool if Apple supported that, then I guess everyone would have been trying trick you into it like the good old days where every website was trying to trick you into making it you start page.
  - prox 5y ago
    Only 5 is really a legitimate reason, all the other things can be done on par with a website.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I think we need "Demand explanation" button for comments like this . It's a useless statement as is. It's essentially trolling and trolling shouldn't be happening on HN. I know the reasoning of that statement but it's not providing an argument to refute. What am I supposed to say? "No. You can't, that's why it's not happening".
      - prox 5y ago
        I do not see how you could read it as such. Because the reason / explanation is already given, as all the options that were mentioned (1-4) can be easily matched by any website, I think it is rather self evident. 1) You can add websites as app icons to iOS and Android. 2) Websites can hold persistent identities, and devices can otherwise remember the login details. 3) Websites UI can be anything and have nearly all options that apps can have, depending on the quality of the UX, which depends on the designer in any case. 4) A professional website will not be any slower if properly designed. Now on 5, that depends on the specifics of the app. Some types do benefit greatly from being boarded on a device. An example would be Procreate for instance, which can not be mimicked on par in webform.
prepend 5y ago
I get pop ups from sites all the time asking me to try their site, every darn time I visit. Mai it stuff like Reddit, Imgur, most news sites. I’ve tried the apps and they’re worse. I’m not sure there’s any explanation other than more ad/data revenue. Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays? Even not accounting for privacy, the apps are generally just shittier with less functionality. I used to give the Google apps as examples of apps being better, but the gmail app is more buggy than just using gmail in a mobile browser, not to mention the integrated phone mail app.
- joe_guy 5y ago
  Our experiences overwhelming align but one counter example is Discord. The chess.com native client is also reasonable.
  - prepend 5y ago
    There are some apps that provide some functionality that genuinely works best and I use the Discord mobile app. Of course, I didn’t instal it based on the pop ups. Similar, there’s quite a few chat/video apps and games where apps make sense. And none of them prompted me to download the app or show lies like “better in our app” crap.
- alsetmusic 5y ago
  > Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays? The IMDB app is far better (to me) than the dumpster-fire that has become their website. Other than that, I agree with the sentiment that most apps for websites are not worthwhile to install.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    It is not necessarily a dumpster fire if one uses something else besides a popular graphical web browser to make the HTTP request and view the text. The "modern" web browser is complicit in creating the dumpster fire. Web developers can provide the inflammable materials, but a "modern" browser that by default auto-loads resources and runs Javascript is required to ignite it. There is no fire unless the right (=wrong) HTTP client is used. I use a text-only browser and write simple command line "apps" (scripts) to retrieve text from sites like IMDB. It works very well. Opening pages on these sites in a "modern" web browser is an entirely different experience. We cannot ignore the complicity of the "modern" web browser in degrading the "user experience" in cases like this one.
arcturus17 5y ago
> some of which aren't sketchy I am as cynical about forcing apps down user's throats as anyone (Reddit, I'm looking at you), but the downvotes are a bit too much when this is a perfectly reasonable point, no? Some cases for apps are perfectly legitimate, maybe the access to the phone APIs and the native experience is much better for a given product or service. I'm a firm believer in PWAs but as it stands I really prefer Uber or delivery apps to be native. I really hope the people downvoting the parent comment are not the same people who are staunchly against web apps, though I suspect there will be some intersection. We can't have web apps, but we can't have native apps either... What can we have then, Geocities and MySpace?
- rolph 5y ago
  we can have privacy, security, autonomy and it is possible to do it with apps if we shift to apps being a service for the user, rather than a service for the developers sponsors
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  Without examples I think the downvotes are justified, note they said there are reasons and suggested that those reasons are widely applied. Which is different to 'there could be reasons' and 'it would be good if everyone moved to using those aspects that give justified benefits'. The expectation is 'everyone wants you to use their app so they can track and advertise better' and the parent basically said 'nuh-uh'. We need more to be able to consider it substantive and benefiting the conversation, IMO.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
What are some of the none sketchy reasons for "everyone" wanting us to use their apps. Like for major companies, where the service is deliverable through a website, what benefits does the user get from an app? I can see why GPS based apps, or camera apps with filters, or networking apps 'need' to be installed apps (I don't know if an easy way to do GPS through a browser; speed and fast access to storage) ... but Amazon, Reddit, newspapers, ... what am I gaining? Genuine question as a one time web dev I've always considered web sites written as an app, shipped with a browser, to be a negative. What am I missing out on?
- oauea 5y ago
  Easy access to push notifications (which can be sketchy, but doesn't have to be) and believe it or not: Letting users put a shortcut on their homescreen. Sure, you can place a shortcut to a PWA in the Chrome browser but most users won't be configuring that, even if you guide them through it.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    In Brave/FF mobile you open then menu and click "add to home screen", do other browsers not have that? Push notifications are pretty common on the web now, aren't they? (I don't use them).
    - Leherenn 5y ago
      Both Chrome and Safari have the "add to home screen", but Safari doesn't have push notifications, not even for "installed" webapp.
      - greeklish 5y ago
        I remember the time when news were flooding the internet evangelizing iphones as the platform of the web, a platform that would allow websites do anything a native application could. What a letdown...
burnished 5y ago
I have an app for most sites, its called my browser. If the app isn't taking advantage of a feature on my phone then it doesn't make sense to package it as an app.. unless they are getting something out of it. Going to make a broad and sweeping generalization here: they are getting money from tracking.
- drusepth 5y ago
  Counterthought: I've been running a popular web-only site for about 5 years now and I get a little under a hundred requests per month for it to be made "into an app". A lot of users just want to be able "to install it" or to "get to it from my home screen" or "to get to it faster" (even after pointing out they can add bookmarks to home screens). It's also tempting from my POV to make an app just for discoverability reasons (e.g. users browsing the app store discovering my site). I haven't made an app (don't know how!) and I definitely wouldn't add a "download our app or else!" banner/wall, but I've been extremely surprised from the other side of the table to see just how many users seemingly just want an app for an app's sake, even if it's functionally no different from a responsive mobile view.
  - qualudeheart 5y ago
    You can contract out the app development. Freelancers are cheap if you hire from poor countries.
  - burnished 5y ago
    That is interesting!

Seriously, what are they? Every time I get pointed at an app, I can only think of https://xkcd.com/1174/ https://xkcd.com/1174/

toast0 5y ago
Many (most?) apps don't do it, but the useful feature for me that's not possible with a web page is reliable, unobtrusive, background updates. Things like weather (with or without current coarse location), sports scores, headline news benefit from up to the minute data fetches, but older data is still useful. For communication apps, often people would like notifications on inbound messages, so that can fit with web push apis to get data; but if you don't want notifications, you can't consistently make messages available to read offline.
mrtksn 5y ago
A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't have to involve the user, the data will be there and not accidentally deleted which means that the presence of the app is as good as username and password. 3) Immersive experience means better user experience. The UI becomes part of the Phone's UI instead of another App's UI's sub UI. A well designed app is very effective. I haven't seen a well designed mobile Web App, Web is great for websites and "possible to do" Mobile Web Apps. 4) Smaller download sizes, faster launches. A website would usually download a few MB of scripts and images, an App without bloated frameworks would be easily around that size and will download it only once. It will be ready to use in less than 0.5s every time. 5) Any advanced stuff is done much better natively even if it is possible to do through the browser. This is because the browser put extra boundaries around the boundaries that has due to the OS boundaries.
- beagle3 5y ago
  6) notifications. Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu.
  - Vrondi 5y ago
    This exists on Android browsers as well (and has for years).
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    >Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu. As I said: >WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. Most people don't know about that functionality, you need to teach them. It would have been cool if Apple supported that, then I guess everyone would have been trying trick you into it like the good old days where every website was trying to trick you into making it you start page.
- prox 5y ago
  Only 5 is really a legitimate reason, all the other things can be done on par with a website.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I think we need "Demand explanation" button for comments like this . It's a useless statement as is. It's essentially trolling and trolling shouldn't be happening on HN. I know the reasoning of that statement but it's not providing an argument to refute. What am I supposed to say? "No. You can't, that's why it's not happening".
    - prox 5y ago
      I do not see how you could read it as such. Because the reason / explanation is already given, as all the options that were mentioned (1-4) can be easily matched by any website, I think it is rather self evident. 1) You can add websites as app icons to iOS and Android. 2) Websites can hold persistent identities, and devices can otherwise remember the login details. 3) Websites UI can be anything and have nearly all options that apps can have, depending on the quality of the UX, which depends on the designer in any case. 4) A professional website will not be any slower if properly designed. Now on 5, that depends on the specifics of the app. Some types do benefit greatly from being boarded on a device. An example would be Procreate for instance, which can not be mimicked on par in webform.

prepend 5y ago

I get pop ups from sites all the time asking me to try their site, every darn time I visit. Mai it stuff like Reddit, Imgur, most news sites. I’ve tried the apps and they’re worse. I’m not sure there’s any explanation other than more ad/data revenue. Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays? Even not accounting for privacy, the apps are generally just shittier with less functionality. I used to give the Google apps as examples of apps being better, but the gmail app is more buggy than just using gmail in a mobile browser, not to mention the integrated phone mail app.

joe_guy 5y ago
Our experiences overwhelming align but one counter example is Discord. The chess.com native client is also reasonable.
- prepend 5y ago
  There are some apps that provide some functionality that genuinely works best and I use the Discord mobile app. Of course, I didn’t instal it based on the pop ups. Similar, there’s quite a few chat/video apps and games where apps make sense. And none of them prompted me to download the app or show lies like “better in our app” crap.
alsetmusic 5y ago
> Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays? The IMDB app is far better (to me) than the dumpster-fire that has become their website. Other than that, I agree with the sentiment that most apps for websites are not worthwhile to install.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
  It is not necessarily a dumpster fire if one uses something else besides a popular graphical web browser to make the HTTP request and view the text. The "modern" web browser is complicit in creating the dumpster fire. Web developers can provide the inflammable materials, but a "modern" browser that by default auto-loads resources and runs Javascript is required to ignite it. There is no fire unless the right (=wrong) HTTP client is used. I use a text-only browser and write simple command line "apps" (scripts) to retrieve text from sites like IMDB. It works very well. Opening pages on these sites in a "modern" web browser is an entirely different experience. We cannot ignore the complicity of the "modern" web browser in degrading the "user experience" in cases like this one.

arcturus17 5y ago

> some of which aren't sketchy I am as cynical about forcing apps down user's throats as anyone (Reddit, I'm looking at you), but the downvotes are a bit too much when this is a perfectly reasonable point, no? Some cases for apps are perfectly legitimate, maybe the access to the phone APIs and the native experience is much better for a given product or service. I'm a firm believer in PWAs but as it stands I really prefer Uber or delivery apps to be native. I really hope the people downvoting the parent comment are not the same people who are staunchly against web apps, though I suspect there will be some intersection. We can't have web apps, but we can't have native apps either... What can we have then, Geocities and MySpace?

rolph 5y ago
we can have privacy, security, autonomy and it is possible to do it with apps if we shift to apps being a service for the user, rather than a service for the developers sponsors
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
Without examples I think the downvotes are justified, note they said there are reasons and suggested that those reasons are widely applied. Which is different to 'there could be reasons' and 'it would be good if everyone moved to using those aspects that give justified benefits'. The expectation is 'everyone wants you to use their app so they can track and advertise better' and the parent basically said 'nuh-uh'. We need more to be able to consider it substantive and benefiting the conversation, IMO.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

What are some of the none sketchy reasons for "everyone" wanting us to use their apps. Like for major companies, where the service is deliverable through a website, what benefits does the user get from an app? I can see why GPS based apps, or camera apps with filters, or networking apps 'need' to be installed apps (I don't know if an easy way to do GPS through a browser; speed and fast access to storage) ... but Amazon, Reddit, newspapers, ... what am I gaining? Genuine question as a one time web dev I've always considered web sites written as an app, shipped with a browser, to be a negative. What am I missing out on?

oauea 5y ago
Easy access to push notifications (which can be sketchy, but doesn't have to be) and believe it or not: Letting users put a shortcut on their homescreen. Sure, you can place a shortcut to a PWA in the Chrome browser but most users won't be configuring that, even if you guide them through it.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  In Brave/FF mobile you open then menu and click "add to home screen", do other browsers not have that? Push notifications are pretty common on the web now, aren't they? (I don't use them).
  - Leherenn 5y ago
    Both Chrome and Safari have the "add to home screen", but Safari doesn't have push notifications, not even for "installed" webapp.
    - greeklish 5y ago
      I remember the time when news were flooding the internet evangelizing iphones as the platform of the web, a platform that would allow websites do anything a native application could. What a letdown...

burnished 5y ago

I have an app for most sites, its called my browser. If the app isn't taking advantage of a feature on my phone then it doesn't make sense to package it as an app.. unless they are getting something out of it. Going to make a broad and sweeping generalization here: they are getting money from tracking.

drusepth 5y ago
Counterthought: I've been running a popular web-only site for about 5 years now and I get a little under a hundred requests per month for it to be made "into an app". A lot of users just want to be able "to install it" or to "get to it from my home screen" or "to get to it faster" (even after pointing out they can add bookmarks to home screens). It's also tempting from my POV to make an app just for discoverability reasons (e.g. users browsing the app store discovering my site). I haven't made an app (don't know how!) and I definitely wouldn't add a "download our app or else!" banner/wall, but I've been extremely surprised from the other side of the table to see just how many users seemingly just want an app for an app's sake, even if it's functionally no different from a responsive mobile view.
- qualudeheart 5y ago
  You can contract out the app development. Freelancers are cheap if you hire from poor countries.
- burnished 5y ago
  That is interesting!