6 ms·

So to clarify: Belarus forced a plane to land, the French try to respect the autonomy of both, now they're banning flights? I had half joked I wanted to take t

So to clarify: Belarus forced a plane to land, the French try to respect the autonomy of both, now they're banning flights? I had half joked I wanted to take the Moscow -> Bejing train at some point , but I guess I'll reasses (my IRL contacts know how much I absolutely LOVE trains), but shit like this makes me inclined to keep spending that money on overpriced coffee or whatever. I looked at the data[1], and Russia made ~11 billion dollars from tourism in 2015, so they must really value being petty since reading these things make them sound unwelcoming, unfriendly, and straight up antisocial. [1] a pdf in they wayback machine cited on wikipedia https://web.archive.org/web/20150112082549/http://www.e-unwto.org/content/r13521/fulltext.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20150112082549/http://www.e-unwt...

deanCommie 5y ago
So to clarify: Did you read the article? > The French airline, part of the broader Air France-KLM group, was forced to cancel two Paris-Moscow flights last week after receiving no Russian clearance for flight plans skirting the territory. > Obstacles to rerouted Air France flights appeared to have been resolved late last week, allowing Air France to carry out two weekend Paris-Moscow services. Sounds like Russian Authorities just took an extra beat (maliciously, or incompetently), or maybe the initial requested plan came too close to some military facility that the Russians had an alteration request over. Either way, the wire services immediately smelled news even though by the time it was ready to publish, the issue was already resolved... so what's the news here? edit: I apologize for my snark. I responded to you because you were the top comment. But it seems like that NONE of the other commenters read the article either. Apalling. edit2: Keeping all my original content above for posterity but clearly I was wrong - jasode below clarified things.
- jasode 5y ago
  >Did you read the article? [...] But it seems like that NONE of the other commenters read the article either. Maybe we're all confused readers because the Reuter articles make the timeline hard to follow. >, the issue was already resolved... so what's the news here? The timestamp for Reuter's own linked article about the "resolved last week" flight routes was May 29: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-approves-new-route-air-france-flights-moscow-2021-05-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-ap... But this thread's article's timestamp is May 31 with new issues about the routes around Belarus that Russia is denying clearance for.
  - deanCommie 5y ago
    Yes, you're absolutely right.
- cm2187 5y ago
  Where did you see that this is now resolved?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
To put things in perspective, Russia's oil and gas contributes ₽5.2T ($720B in USD) to the federal budget alone: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-budget-oil-and-gas-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-b...
- CalChris 5y ago
  And those revenues have been in steep decline. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-budget-oil-and-gas-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-b...
  - loceng 5y ago
    Are there not other bad actor(s) mostly aligned with Putin who could start buying u all their oil if say a war broke out, or are we passed that type of war needing so much such natural resources, or perhaps those countries have enough oil reserves/production already?
    - giarc 5y ago
      This is just a guess, but the former Soviet union countries that potentially would re-align with Russia aren't huge countries with big oil appetites. They likely don't have the means to start buying up billions of dollars in Russian oil.
  - kordlessagain 5y ago
    But hacking is up!
jabajabadu 5y ago
Sadly, the criminal gang that runs Russia is not interested in the economic prosperity of its citizens. They want ordinary people to stay poor and isolated since this makes them so much easier to control. They fully understand (and welcome) the consequences of their actions.
- vmception 5y ago
  Can you shed some more light on this? Russia has been an accounting game since the fall of the soviet union: underpriced shares, diverted revenue/dividend to insiders, lucrative resource or revenue generating assets sold opaquely and also underpriced Does this end at some point? Where there are no more formerly state owned resources to pillage and convert to Euros/CHF/USD?
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    > Russia has been an accounting game since the fall of the soviet union Again, the argument is that it does not matter. As long as the people in power are well compensated the general wellbeing of federation is of little consequence. It is pretty simple. People who barely scrape by have no time, resources or focus to be fighting. They can't have too much or too little.
sandworm101 5y ago
The tourists that Russia cares about are not flying Air France. They come and go on their own planes.
- jryle70 5y ago
  Who are they and how much they contribute compared to millions visiting Russia every year?
yongjik 5y ago
I always wonder what's the endgame for Russia. In terms of national GDP, it's sitting between Canada and South Korea. Can you imagine Canada hoarding nukes and sending troops for "vacation"? I don't think Canada could afford to, even if they wanted to (which, thankfully, they don't). ...Is Russia slowly bankrupting itself by pretending to be its former self?
- pydry 5y ago
  It's trying to protect its western border. There are no mountains there. It's flat terrain leading right up to their heartland that has been invaded multiple times throughout history. The vulnerability they feel on this border is so intense it has shaped the national psyche. Two countries (Latvia and Estonia) have already flipped to the west (NATO members). Ukraine is torn between Russia and the west (that's what Maidan morphed into after starting off as an anti corruption protest). Lukashenko was engaged in a struggle with pro western opponents. There's a proxy war going on on its borders. I don't think this is about Russia trying to dominate the world. I think it's about Russia wanting to buffer its most exposed border. If Western Canada joined in an alliance with Russia and Eastern Canada was run by a pro American dictator do you think America would behave differently?
  - stingraycharles 5y ago
    Given all the shenanigans Russia has been involved in in the past, say, 10 years on their Western borders, I think it has been far too offensive and controversial to “just” be about defense and protecting its border. It’s an offensive game, such as what happened with the Crimea. I think this comment is far too apologetic.
    - pydry 5y ago
      Crimea was about protecting their naval base in Sevastopol - the only all year warm water naval base that they have.
      - mastax 5y ago
novok 5y ago
If they really liked tourism, they would give tourist visas on arrival like all the other tourist loving countries, not make you go through a visa application song and dance.
- berdario 5y ago
  They were actually going to do something almost as good in 2020 (plans got postponed due to the pandemic) https://evisa.kdmid.ru/ https://evisa.kdmid.ru/ Most western countries can actually visit without getting a visa in your passport beforehand. The US and the UK also benefit a lot from tourism, and yet they have an extremely hostile border control system + an extremely onerous visa application process (I got a Russian visa a few times... It's definitely simpler)

deanCommie 5y ago

So to clarify: Did you read the article? > The French airline, part of the broader Air France-KLM group, was forced to cancel two Paris-Moscow flights last week after receiving no Russian clearance for flight plans skirting the territory. > Obstacles to rerouted Air France flights appeared to have been resolved late last week, allowing Air France to carry out two weekend Paris-Moscow services. Sounds like Russian Authorities just took an extra beat (maliciously, or incompetently), or maybe the initial requested plan came too close to some military facility that the Russians had an alteration request over. Either way, the wire services immediately smelled news even though by the time it was ready to publish, the issue was already resolved... so what's the news here? edit: I apologize for my snark. I responded to you because you were the top comment. But it seems like that NONE of the other commenters read the article either. Apalling. edit2: Keeping all my original content above for posterity but clearly I was wrong - jasode below clarified things.

jasode 5y ago
>Did you read the article? [...] But it seems like that NONE of the other commenters read the article either. Maybe we're all confused readers because the Reuter articles make the timeline hard to follow. >, the issue was already resolved... so what's the news here? The timestamp for Reuter's own linked article about the "resolved last week" flight routes was May 29: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-approves-new-route-air-france-flights-moscow-2021-05-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-ap... But this thread's article's timestamp is May 31 with new issues about the routes around Belarus that Russia is denying clearance for.
- deanCommie 5y ago
  Yes, you're absolutely right.
cm2187 5y ago
Where did you see that this is now resolved?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

To put things in perspective, Russia's oil and gas contributes ₽5.2T ($720B in USD) to the federal budget alone: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-budget-oil-and-gas-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-b...

CalChris 5y ago
And those revenues have been in steep decline. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-budget-oil-and-gas-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028682/russia-federal-b...
- loceng 5y ago
  Are there not other bad actor(s) mostly aligned with Putin who could start buying u all their oil if say a war broke out, or are we passed that type of war needing so much such natural resources, or perhaps those countries have enough oil reserves/production already?
  - giarc 5y ago
    This is just a guess, but the former Soviet union countries that potentially would re-align with Russia aren't huge countries with big oil appetites. They likely don't have the means to start buying up billions of dollars in Russian oil.
- kordlessagain 5y ago
  But hacking is up!

jabajabadu 5y ago

Sadly, the criminal gang that runs Russia is not interested in the economic prosperity of its citizens. They want ordinary people to stay poor and isolated since this makes them so much easier to control. They fully understand (and welcome) the consequences of their actions.

vmception 5y ago
Can you shed some more light on this? Russia has been an accounting game since the fall of the soviet union: underpriced shares, diverted revenue/dividend to insiders, lucrative resource or revenue generating assets sold opaquely and also underpriced Does this end at some point? Where there are no more formerly state owned resources to pillage and convert to Euros/CHF/USD?
- lmilcin 5y ago
  > Russia has been an accounting game since the fall of the soviet union Again, the argument is that it does not matter. As long as the people in power are well compensated the general wellbeing of federation is of little consequence. It is pretty simple. People who barely scrape by have no time, resources or focus to be fighting. They can't have too much or too little.

sandworm101 5y ago

The tourists that Russia cares about are not flying Air France. They come and go on their own planes.

jryle70 5y ago
Who are they and how much they contribute compared to millions visiting Russia every year?

yongjik 5y ago

I always wonder what's the endgame for Russia. In terms of national GDP, it's sitting between Canada and South Korea. Can you imagine Canada hoarding nukes and sending troops for "vacation"? I don't think Canada could afford to, even if they wanted to (which, thankfully, they don't). ...Is Russia slowly bankrupting itself by pretending to be its former self?

pydry 5y ago
It's trying to protect its western border. There are no mountains there. It's flat terrain leading right up to their heartland that has been invaded multiple times throughout history. The vulnerability they feel on this border is so intense it has shaped the national psyche. Two countries (Latvia and Estonia) have already flipped to the west (NATO members). Ukraine is torn between Russia and the west (that's what Maidan morphed into after starting off as an anti corruption protest). Lukashenko was engaged in a struggle with pro western opponents. There's a proxy war going on on its borders. I don't think this is about Russia trying to dominate the world. I think it's about Russia wanting to buffer its most exposed border. If Western Canada joined in an alliance with Russia and Eastern Canada was run by a pro American dictator do you think America would behave differently?
- stingraycharles 5y ago
  Given all the shenanigans Russia has been involved in in the past, say, 10 years on their Western borders, I think it has been far too offensive and controversial to “just” be about defense and protecting its border. It’s an offensive game, such as what happened with the Crimea. I think this comment is far too apologetic.
  - pydry 5y ago
    Crimea was about protecting their naval base in Sevastopol - the only all year warm water naval base that they have.
    - mastax 5y ago

novok 5y ago

If they really liked tourism, they would give tourist visas on arrival like all the other tourist loving countries, not make you go through a visa application song and dance.

berdario 5y ago
They were actually going to do something almost as good in 2020 (plans got postponed due to the pandemic) https://evisa.kdmid.ru/ https://evisa.kdmid.ru/ Most western countries can actually visit without getting a visa in your passport beforehand. The US and the UK also benefit a lot from tourism, and yet they have an extremely hostile border control system + an extremely onerous visa application process (I got a Russian visa a few times... It's definitely simpler)