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This whole development surrounding the diversion of a Ryanair flight to Minsk is interesting as it shows clearly how two nation states are trying out to see wha
by chinathrow 5y ago
This whole development surrounding the diversion of a Ryanair flight to Minsk is interesting as it shows clearly how two nation states are trying out to see what they can get away with.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoGermany should cancel Nord Stream 2. Shot across the bow of Gazprom and Russia.
- haram_masala 5y agoThat would be much more than a shot across the bow, given how much the Russian economy and federal budget depends on gas revenues.
- cheph 5y agoMaybe Russia can get it's shit in order?
- mschuster91 5y agoWhy create a billions of dollars worth investment ruin when we can also complete it and go the "stick and carrots" route? Let it sit but demand concessions from Putin. He wants to sell the gas, after all...
- quonn 5y agoThat would likely hurt Germany (by reducing options).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cheph 5y agoSo anything goes as long as Germany comes first? And really, is it in Germany's interests to support dictatorships as the wave of illiberalism rolls further west? How exactly? Germany and it's neo empire, AKA EU, is spineless and pathetic and deserves to die the slow death it is facing while China and Russia crushes the last hope and light left in the world. Germany just can't help itself, time and again making the world a worse place. Germans truly learnt nothing, disingenuously saying "never again" while gladhanding with a authoritarian power openly engaging in genocide: https://neveragainrightnow.com/ https://neveragainrightnow.com/
- throwaway210222 5y agoWell since Russia is now the USA's largest external supplier of oil [1], perhaps they can get the ball rolling? No need to whine at the Germans. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-24/russia-oil-demand-hits-record-high-in-u-s-amid-rising-tensions https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-24/russia-oi... Who again is spineless?
- cheph 5y agoEurope has consistently been a bigger trading partner with Russia: https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus?subnatTradeValueSelector=tradeScale2&subnationalFlowSelector=flow0&yearSelector1=exportGrowthYear25#yearly-exports https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus?subnatTradeValueSel... And can't Germany do anything right without US holding their hand? But to be fair yes, Biden is equally pathetic and sad for gladhanding with Russia.
- makomk 5y agoI don't think the USA is particularly reliant on any external supplies of oil these days, whereas the same cannot be said for Europe and gas.
- throwaway210222 5y agoThen surely it makes it even easier for the USA to decline said Russian oil? Come, show those Germans what decisive, principled action looks like.
- Mountain_Skies 5y agoHow will the US make up for that oil? Not through internal drilling and extraction as the environmental wing of the party in power would never allow it. Closer ties to Middle Eastern states that have their own terrible human rights abuses?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> perhaps they can get the ball rolling? A European plane with European passengers was downed. No Americans. Putin would not have signed off on a similar operation with an American plane. U.S. geopolitical focus is presently in the Pacific. Getting sidetracked with whatever is going on between Berlin and Moscow doesn’t serve our interests.
- morelisp 5y agoA stronger Russia, weaker Europe, and changing climate hurt Germany considerably more in the long run. (Shame our politicians can't see past autumn...)
- beefield 5y agoI think that would be a shot at the bow. A shot across the bow would be to maybe stop buying gas from Russia for a week or two during the summer. I have no clue how much that would cost, but I have started to think that it might make sense also as an supply chain disruption exercise.
- bombcar 5y agoDoes Germany have other sources available to it? Otherwise it'd be like a "boycott" where you just move the purchases to another day.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThey should threaten to recommission their nukes.
- throwaway210222 5y agoWhy would that bother Russia? They already have thousands pointing at them and about seven thousand ready to fly back anyone dumb enough to attack them. A few more German nukes doesn't change their risk at all.
- stickfigure 5y agoI believe parent is referring to nuclear power stations, which Germany began phasing out after Fukushima.
- KMag 5y agoGermany has never had nuclear weapons of its own, though the US has had around 60 warheads in Buchel (edit: and currently probably has about about 20 warheads) as part of the NATO Nuclear Sharing deterrent, and the Soviet Union deployed some nuclear warheads in East Germany for a time. Edit: maybe thousands of warheads were in Germany at the height of the cold war, though a quick look through Wikipedia isn't clear about the peak number of warheads.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> Germany should cancel Nord Stream 2. Shot across the bow of Gazprom and Russia Unlikely to happen until Merkel is out. She has been incredibly weak when it comes to Russia.
- ArkanExplorer 5y agoFormer German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder oversaw the shutdown of Germany's nuclear industry. He is now chairman of the Russian gas conglomerate Rosneft. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41447603 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41447603 The shutdown of Germany's nukes is a result of corruption at the most senior level, and represents one of the greatest betrayals of the German people, of Europe, and of indeed the planet given the additional emissions. If the EU is really serious about Russian and energy independence, they should be begin a mass program of nuclear power building across the bloc. But its more likely that all of the senior European bureaucrats and politicians are corrupted at some level.
- morsch 5y agoCorruption, and, you know, widespread support among the German population. So I guess a betrayal of the Germans, by the Germans. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutschlandtrend/deutschlandtrend1556.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutschlandtrend/deutschlan... (2011) https://atomkraftwerkeplag.wikia.org/de/wiki/Meinungsumfragen_zur_Atomkraft https://atomkraftwerkeplag.wikia.org/de/wiki/Meinungsumfrage...
- ArkanExplorer 5y agoIf you explained to those same people that the replacement is going to involve a lot of coal and Russian gas, and that the decision was based on a corrupted chancellor, would they still support the decision? If the chancellor was corrupted, then what about senior media controllers and leaders of the Greens movement?
- stkdump 5y agoGermans know very well, that Schröder was corrupt. They still support the Energiewende. But Trump bullying Germany to stop buying Russian gas, so the US can sell its more expensive fracking gas to Europe isn't a perfect signal of sincerity either.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thepangolino 5y agoI'm starting to wonder why Belarus didn't just shoot that plane down and blame Russian tourists or something. Would have probably caused less trouble.
- jopsen 5y agoI think the response would have been more prompt, and a lot harder for people to ignore. Tourism in Belarus would disappear instantly.. Note. when Russia* shot down a commerical jet over Ukraine, it probably was a mistake. At-least the opposite is far fetch we're willing to believe it wasn't intentional. * We can also say pro-russian separatists, but they are probably one and the same.
- matwood 5y agos/interesting/concerning. This is the type of thing that leads to wars.
- pjc50 5y agoI get a very strong sense that the Iron Curtain is being rebuilt. Hopefully this time further to the east.