4 ms·

Are there any other explanations for the massive male surplus?

faitswulff 5y ago
Is adoption murder? Abortion? Why is it easier to imagine that Chinese people murder infants than it is to imagine literally any other scenario? Why is it easier to assume that a massive sex imbalance is the result members of a particular group of people being psychopaths rather than the result of some systemic cause? Hmm.
- eloisius 5y ago
  I think the systemic cause was clearly pointed out: the one child policy.
  - faitswulff 5y ago
    And the killing of children follows, naturally
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - kbelder 5y ago
      Naturally.
- prepend 5y ago
  Infanticide doesn’t mean psychopaths. It’s been practiced, and I think super bad, by many cultures. I don’t think that means the culture is full of psychopaths. Also, I assumed the reason there was no evidence posted for the Chinese infanticide claim is that it’s extremely common and has been known for a long time. I just assumed everyone was aware. It doesn’t mean people killing literal babies, but does mean stuff like more abortions of female embryos. [0] Wikipedia [1] has a more general article with more links to sources. [0] https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-child-policy-led-to-forced-abortions-30-million-bachelors https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-chil... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China
  - faitswulff 5y ago
    This is the only reply worth reading. Even then, abortion is not infanticide.
    - prepend 5y ago
      That’s an important distinction. And why I called out that much of the ratio imbalance is due to abortion and not literally people killing their baby after birth, although this does occur nonzero and is really horrifying to me. Ancient cultures practiced it much more frequently and I think shows how different cultures have different values for life.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    True story: when we got pregnant in Beijing, our first ultrasound that could tell the sex of the baby, the technician was hinting at it (look there!), but she wasn’t allowed to say it out loud.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  Yes, abortion is murder and a new human being is formed at conception. It's just convenient to call it something else not to appear monsters. If a girl were adopted in China she would still show up in this dataset. I haven't heard about foreign adoption being popular in China (like it would be in eg. Africa), so the unbalance is likely to be the result of aborting/killing baby girls.
  - faitswulff 5y ago
    Moving the goalposts. It certainly is not "killing female infants."
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Foreign adoptions from China were popular a decade or two ago, now they pretty much don’t exist. Still, those flows should have had some effect on today’s numbers.

Is adoption murder? Abortion? Why is it easier to imagine that Chinese people murder infants than it is to imagine literally any other scenario? Why is it easier to assume that a massive sex imbalance is the result members of a particular group of people being psychopaths rather than the result of some systemic cause? Hmm.

eloisius 5y ago
I think the systemic cause was clearly pointed out: the one child policy.
- faitswulff 5y ago
  And the killing of children follows, naturally
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kbelder 5y ago
    Naturally.
prepend 5y ago
Infanticide doesn’t mean psychopaths. It’s been practiced, and I think super bad, by many cultures. I don’t think that means the culture is full of psychopaths. Also, I assumed the reason there was no evidence posted for the Chinese infanticide claim is that it’s extremely common and has been known for a long time. I just assumed everyone was aware. It doesn’t mean people killing literal babies, but does mean stuff like more abortions of female embryos. [0] Wikipedia [1] has a more general article with more links to sources. [0] https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-child-policy-led-to-forced-abortions-30-million-bachelors https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-chil... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China
- faitswulff 5y ago
  This is the only reply worth reading. Even then, abortion is not infanticide.
  - prepend 5y ago
    That’s an important distinction. And why I called out that much of the ratio imbalance is due to abortion and not literally people killing their baby after birth, although this does occur nonzero and is really horrifying to me. Ancient cultures practiced it much more frequently and I think shows how different cultures have different values for life.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  True story: when we got pregnant in Beijing, our first ultrasound that could tell the sex of the baby, the technician was hinting at it (look there!), but she wasn’t allowed to say it out loud.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Yes, abortion is murder and a new human being is formed at conception. It's just convenient to call it something else not to appear monsters. If a girl were adopted in China she would still show up in this dataset. I haven't heard about foreign adoption being popular in China (like it would be in eg. Africa), so the unbalance is likely to be the result of aborting/killing baby girls.
- faitswulff 5y ago
  Moving the goalposts. It certainly is not "killing female infants."
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Foreign adoptions from China were popular a decade or two ago, now they pretty much don’t exist. Still, those flows should have had some effect on today’s numbers.