5 ms·

Luckily Danish didn't have Huawei equipments, otherwise it wouldn't be possible. Tell me one reason Chinese is building a first world class technology company j

Luckily Danish didn't have Huawei equipments, otherwise it wouldn't be possible. Tell me one reason Chinese is building a first world class technology company just to be found out for spying on customers and doomed to be out of business.

robrorcroptrer 5y ago
Are you a Chinese agent?
- MsMowz 5y ago
  They're making a comment on the HN/general paranoia around Huawei in the face of the actual privacy concerns regarding the US government. Does someone need to be a Chinese agent to find this paranoid behavior objectionable?
  - throwaway4good 5y ago
    It is also a specific comment. The us intelligence service probably does not have as good relations to Huawei as it has to Ericsson. The original Huawei response to allegations was to open themselves up to external audits and encourage other suppliers to do the same. Of course that didn’t help them. Huawei today is banned from providing network services in denmark.
    - kasey_junk 5y ago
      This particular whistle blower is not alleging that the NSA or any US controlled entity compromised Ericsson equipment, rather that the US and Danish intelligence agencies collaborated but that collaboration ended up being used against Danish interests. That’s orthogonal to whether using Huawei equipment is also against Danish interests.
      - xwolfi 5y ago
        But clearly it's never the equipment that's a problem (who seriously believes this can't be observed or worked around with simple isolation/reverse engineering/relocation of factory/firewalling?) but the elected officials collaborating with the americans. When your telco buys Huawei, it's not to give an entry door to Chinese security services. It's because it's the best at that price point. If they can explain exactly how Huawei is supposed to backdoor their commercial partners, then fine. Ironically I have a Huawei phone, without Google services, and after the initial withdrawal phase that was painful, I now feel better knowing Google isn't tracking me and maybe Huawei is. The simple fact is my government would never willingly give them the keys, while they do with little hesitation when the fat burgers come and ask.
      - throwaway4good 5y ago
        Without knowing the specifics. I think one of the issues is that when NSA hooks itself into say a network router, it leaves trace behind (ie. an altered configuration) that can be spotted by the network engineers that maintain that equipment.
        GordonS 5y ago
        I would have guessed they would be a bit more sophisticated than that, perhaps flashing a new "evil" firmware that would look to be perfectly normal and unchanged to those without the correct key.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - m12k 5y ago
    Objecting to abuses of power by a super power is totally reasonable. Using it as a reason to say "oh, but this other super power totally wouldn't do that" is at best naive and at worst shilling. Looking at gp's comment history I believe they are just a regular Chinese citizen, and not a paid astroturfer - but I do understand how someone might suspect the latter from seeing just this one comment.
    - MsMowz 5y ago
      > Using it as a reason to say "oh, but this other super power totally wouldn't do that" is at best naive and at worst shilling. That’s not what they said though. They made an argument that it’s against the interests of Huawei to engage in spying because they would be caught and it would harm their international reputation, in juxtaposition to the confirmed fact that the NSA is engaging in international spying via non-Huawei devices. The idea that those who aren’t dogmatically opposed to anything and everything Chinese might be plants is insulting. Am I a paid American astroturfer because I work for a US software company? After all, it’s public record that the DOD has thousands of paid social media astroturfers. How is this productive discourse unless your goal is to foment antagonism between our countries?
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  Do you actually believe the person you are replying to is a Chinese agent? Just based on his comment?
- powerapple 5y ago
  sadly this is how internet works now, you filter information with a simple binary decision: if match_my_opinion: return good_guy else: return he_must_be_brainwashed_and_stupid
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    For values of "now" more recent than, uh, the Meso-Paleolithic?
fsloth 5y ago
There are about three great powers / political cliques with aspirations that interact through geopolitics. One is US led with roots in western roman church, the other Chinese, the third a culturally rich agglomeration of various authoritarian regimes that mostly are united by their desire for local power, disdain of democracy and both overt US and China influence. You cannot live connected to the net without presumption that the security body of one or more of these has access to your data, and will trawl through this data with impunity. The only thing you can do is to hedge your bets on which political entity has the most unencumbered access. So either US, China or the local neighborhood friendly authoritarian state security service. I would imagine everybody of importance in the west presumes NSA listens to them, politely ignore this and just turn off their phones when they don't want to be eavesdropped. It sucks that either I have to go full edward-snowden-harden-my-kit way, or then just not care about my privacy. I'm a bit lazy and not that idealistic and hence choose the latter.
- socialdemocrat 5y ago
  That is cynical nonsense. Europe could have taken care of its own security. Exit NATO and build a European defense alliance not made into a tool for American aspirations for world domination. Europe has IMO much cleaner goals. European nations don’t keep 800 military bases around the world and massive spying operations.
  - fsloth 5y ago
    I’m presuming we are using EU and ”Europe” to mean roughly the same thing in this discussion (France, Germany, and bunch of smaller states nobody remembers the full list of). Tongue in cheek. It’s not nonsense, it’s the current situation. I am not saying Europe would not have the capability to do the things you said theoretically. Pragmatically there is no such capability at the moment. EU is a trade and subsidies -body at the moment. Security is handled by individual member states and by Nato. The problem is there is no geopolitcal credible entity called ”Europe” - just a bunch of member states. To gauge EU:s capability level in security at the moment - take the latest Belorussian stunt. Imagine what the US response would have been if KGB had hijacked a plane flying from Miami to New York.
quyleanh 5y ago
What do you mean when mentioning to Huawei and China? These words even don't exist in this article? AFAIK, there is no actual evidence about Huawei spying with its 5G equipment.

robrorcroptrer 5y ago

Are you a Chinese agent?

MsMowz 5y ago
They're making a comment on the HN/general paranoia around Huawei in the face of the actual privacy concerns regarding the US government. Does someone need to be a Chinese agent to find this paranoid behavior objectionable?
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  It is also a specific comment. The us intelligence service probably does not have as good relations to Huawei as it has to Ericsson. The original Huawei response to allegations was to open themselves up to external audits and encourage other suppliers to do the same. Of course that didn’t help them. Huawei today is banned from providing network services in denmark.
  - kasey_junk 5y ago
    This particular whistle blower is not alleging that the NSA or any US controlled entity compromised Ericsson equipment, rather that the US and Danish intelligence agencies collaborated but that collaboration ended up being used against Danish interests. That’s orthogonal to whether using Huawei equipment is also against Danish interests.
    - xwolfi 5y ago
      But clearly it's never the equipment that's a problem (who seriously believes this can't be observed or worked around with simple isolation/reverse engineering/relocation of factory/firewalling?) but the elected officials collaborating with the americans. When your telco buys Huawei, it's not to give an entry door to Chinese security services. It's because it's the best at that price point. If they can explain exactly how Huawei is supposed to backdoor their commercial partners, then fine. Ironically I have a Huawei phone, without Google services, and after the initial withdrawal phase that was painful, I now feel better knowing Google isn't tracking me and maybe Huawei is. The simple fact is my government would never willingly give them the keys, while they do with little hesitation when the fat burgers come and ask.
    - throwaway4good 5y ago
      Without knowing the specifics. I think one of the issues is that when NSA hooks itself into say a network router, it leaves trace behind (ie. an altered configuration) that can be spotted by the network engineers that maintain that equipment.
      - GordonS 5y ago
        I would have guessed they would be a bit more sophisticated than that, perhaps flashing a new "evil" firmware that would look to be perfectly normal and unchanged to those without the correct key.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- m12k 5y ago
  Objecting to abuses of power by a super power is totally reasonable. Using it as a reason to say "oh, but this other super power totally wouldn't do that" is at best naive and at worst shilling. Looking at gp's comment history I believe they are just a regular Chinese citizen, and not a paid astroturfer - but I do understand how someone might suspect the latter from seeing just this one comment.
  - MsMowz 5y ago
    > Using it as a reason to say "oh, but this other super power totally wouldn't do that" is at best naive and at worst shilling. That’s not what they said though. They made an argument that it’s against the interests of Huawei to engage in spying because they would be caught and it would harm their international reputation, in juxtaposition to the confirmed fact that the NSA is engaging in international spying via non-Huawei devices. The idea that those who aren’t dogmatically opposed to anything and everything Chinese might be plants is insulting. Am I a paid American astroturfer because I work for a US software company? After all, it’s public record that the DOD has thousands of paid social media astroturfers. How is this productive discourse unless your goal is to foment antagonism between our countries?
throwaway4good 5y ago
Do you actually believe the person you are replying to is a Chinese agent? Just based on his comment?
powerapple 5y ago
sadly this is how internet works now, you filter information with a simple binary decision: if match_my_opinion: return good_guy else: return he_must_be_brainwashed_and_stupid
- CRConrad 5y ago
  For values of "now" more recent than, uh, the Meso-Paleolithic?

fsloth 5y ago

There are about three great powers / political cliques with aspirations that interact through geopolitics. One is US led with roots in western roman church, the other Chinese, the third a culturally rich agglomeration of various authoritarian regimes that mostly are united by their desire for local power, disdain of democracy and both overt US and China influence. You cannot live connected to the net without presumption that the security body of one or more of these has access to your data, and will trawl through this data with impunity. The only thing you can do is to hedge your bets on which political entity has the most unencumbered access. So either US, China or the local neighborhood friendly authoritarian state security service. I would imagine everybody of importance in the west presumes NSA listens to them, politely ignore this and just turn off their phones when they don't want to be eavesdropped. It sucks that either I have to go full edward-snowden-harden-my-kit way, or then just not care about my privacy. I'm a bit lazy and not that idealistic and hence choose the latter.

socialdemocrat 5y ago
That is cynical nonsense. Europe could have taken care of its own security. Exit NATO and build a European defense alliance not made into a tool for American aspirations for world domination. Europe has IMO much cleaner goals. European nations don’t keep 800 military bases around the world and massive spying operations.
- fsloth 5y ago
  I’m presuming we are using EU and ”Europe” to mean roughly the same thing in this discussion (France, Germany, and bunch of smaller states nobody remembers the full list of). Tongue in cheek. It’s not nonsense, it’s the current situation. I am not saying Europe would not have the capability to do the things you said theoretically. Pragmatically there is no such capability at the moment. EU is a trade and subsidies -body at the moment. Security is handled by individual member states and by Nato. The problem is there is no geopolitcal credible entity called ”Europe” - just a bunch of member states. To gauge EU:s capability level in security at the moment - take the latest Belorussian stunt. Imagine what the US response would have been if KGB had hijacked a plane flying from Miami to New York.

quyleanh 5y ago

What do you mean when mentioning to Huawei and China? These words even don't exist in this article? AFAIK, there is no actual evidence about Huawei spying with its 5G equipment.