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But we're not. All our western countries have, in the past, committed heinous crimes against out fellow human beings. All those western countries admit to these

But we're not. All our western countries have, in the past, committed heinous crimes against out fellow human beings. All those western countries admit to these heinous crimes and teach them to our children today. Where are the schools in China that teach of the CCP's own heinous crimes? If the Westerners have done it before, surely China can do it now, right? That's like saying Israel can continue its campaign of infanticide and oppression because hey, it happened to them! In Washington State I was educated from childhood for the next decade in the genocide of our native people. I am well aware of our sins. The Chinese people and the world's are lied to, from Tiananmen to Tibet to Taiwan in a ruthless campaign of disinformation that warps the narrative every moment we draw equivalence to such tawdry narratives as US prisoners for hire equivalent to a genocide as large as half (I'm including the numbers for the estimated half-million Tibetans sent to camps [1]) the number of all Native Americans in the US at their height. If the CCP wins this global narrative we are condemning these people to their erasure forever in the memory of the world. This is carte blanche for these abuses to continue. I stand with all human beings, everywhere, as my sisters and brothers. May none of them come to harm. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_camps_in_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_camps_in_Tibet

bigbillheck 5y ago
> All our western countries have, in the past, "The past" being 2020? https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-detention-and-coerced-sterilization-history-tragically-repeats-itself/ https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-dete... Or 2018? https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvzj8z/social-workers-forced-indigenous-girls-under-10-to-get-iuds-canadian-lawyer-alleges https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvzj8z/social-workers-forced...
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  The forcibly sterilized immigrants you cite, based on the ongoing investigation, point to a rogue doctor from a single camp. This does not excuse these actions but it's such a far cry from genocide that it appears disingenuous.
  - michael1999 5y ago
    I agree with your sentiment about the relative scale of current US and Chinese detention crimes, but you may want to rethink just how genocide happens. It was not official policy to torture children in Canada, and yet St. Anne's residential school had an electric chair. And so Canada refused responsibility, instead deflecting blame to the Catholic Church and "rogue" nuns. Eventually you need to accept that depraved individuals acting with impunity is part of the plan. Consider just how hard ICE works to keep lawyers and journalists away to limit oversight. It is a recipe for abuse. Congressional leadership, and the president were very clear -- dissuasion through vindictive treatment was the goal. https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential-school-opp-documents https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential...
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  Exactly. The past is past. Want to dig into what China done in the past too?
rjzzleep 5y ago
Past? Libya is in shambles 2 million fled a country of 3 million. The richest country of Africa just a few years ago. The secretary of state bragged about the killing of its leader. He was impaled on a spear! Afghanistan is a place where people see other kids killed in the streets. Syria has had most of its old metropols destroyed by people where the US "accidently" dropped their military equipment on. Iraq is still birthing countless mutilated children due to the use of depleted uranium. Lebanon is in freefall. It's but one example of 20 years of constant war with millions of people thrown into misery. Taiwan, Japan and South Korea are so weak on protecting their own borders, because the US actively sabotaged their domestic defence. I'm no friend of China and much less the Soviet Union, but if anything, you can see that the reason why North Korea at the beginning of their war basically steamrolled the South was because the Soviets left them with a functional military and the US did not. Keep in mind that the US didn't work against China receiving nuclear weapons, but actively sabotaged any nuclear development in Taiwan, both locally and at the UN. China actually started releasing a human rights report on the US a few years back. I'm not saying China is right. I'm saying that if you want to be taken seriously by the global south you better get your act together. But I actually fear it's too late. One thing Trump did well was drop the curtain on the whole Charade albeit probably not intentionally. Remember when he said they're leaving Syria, but will still occupy the oil fields?
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  > China actually started releasing a human rights report on the US a few years back. This is exactly my point. Why would I be interested to read anything the CCP has to put out when there is no freedom of the press in China? So long as we allow the CCP to have its equivalencies we will never know of the total harm inflicted and these people will die, erased. You have also neatly sidestepped my very first question asking where China's own schools are that teach these human abuses?
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    When responding to criticism against China, people who point out that western countries human rights records are also very problematic, or people who point out that western propaganda is at work, are often accused of whataboutism. The reasoning is that misconduct by western countries doesn't make their criticism against China invalid. If we accept that, then the reverse should also apply: Misconduct by China doesn't make China's criticism against the US invalid.

bigbillheck 5y ago

> All our western countries have, in the past, "The past" being 2020? https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-detention-and-coerced-sterilization-history-tragically-repeats-itself/ https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-dete... Or 2018? https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvzj8z/social-workers-forced-indigenous-girls-under-10-to-get-iuds-canadian-lawyer-alleges https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvzj8z/social-workers-forced...

emptysongglass 5y ago
The forcibly sterilized immigrants you cite, based on the ongoing investigation, point to a rogue doctor from a single camp. This does not excuse these actions but it's such a far cry from genocide that it appears disingenuous.
- michael1999 5y ago
  I agree with your sentiment about the relative scale of current US and Chinese detention crimes, but you may want to rethink just how genocide happens. It was not official policy to torture children in Canada, and yet St. Anne's residential school had an electric chair. And so Canada refused responsibility, instead deflecting blame to the Catholic Church and "rogue" nuns. Eventually you need to accept that depraved individuals acting with impunity is part of the plan. Consider just how hard ICE works to keep lawyers and journalists away to limit oversight. It is a recipe for abuse. Congressional leadership, and the president were very clear -- dissuasion through vindictive treatment was the goal. https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential-school-opp-documents https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential...
AzzieElbab 5y ago
Exactly. The past is past. Want to dig into what China done in the past too?

rjzzleep 5y ago

Past? Libya is in shambles 2 million fled a country of 3 million. The richest country of Africa just a few years ago. The secretary of state bragged about the killing of its leader. He was impaled on a spear! Afghanistan is a place where people see other kids killed in the streets. Syria has had most of its old metropols destroyed by people where the US "accidently" dropped their military equipment on. Iraq is still birthing countless mutilated children due to the use of depleted uranium. Lebanon is in freefall. It's but one example of 20 years of constant war with millions of people thrown into misery. Taiwan, Japan and South Korea are so weak on protecting their own borders, because the US actively sabotaged their domestic defence. I'm no friend of China and much less the Soviet Union, but if anything, you can see that the reason why North Korea at the beginning of their war basically steamrolled the South was because the Soviets left them with a functional military and the US did not. Keep in mind that the US didn't work against China receiving nuclear weapons, but actively sabotaged any nuclear development in Taiwan, both locally and at the UN. China actually started releasing a human rights report on the US a few years back. I'm not saying China is right. I'm saying that if you want to be taken seriously by the global south you better get your act together. But I actually fear it's too late. One thing Trump did well was drop the curtain on the whole Charade albeit probably not intentionally. Remember when he said they're leaving Syria, but will still occupy the oil fields?

emptysongglass 5y ago
> China actually started releasing a human rights report on the US a few years back. This is exactly my point. Why would I be interested to read anything the CCP has to put out when there is no freedom of the press in China? So long as we allow the CCP to have its equivalencies we will never know of the total harm inflicted and these people will die, erased. You have also neatly sidestepped my very first question asking where China's own schools are that teach these human abuses?
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  When responding to criticism against China, people who point out that western countries human rights records are also very problematic, or people who point out that western propaganda is at work, are often accused of whataboutism. The reasoning is that misconduct by western countries doesn't make their criticism against China invalid. If we accept that, then the reverse should also apply: Misconduct by China doesn't make China's criticism against the US invalid.