5 ms·

Standard replacements: For signing: signify/minisign For encryption: age For file transfer: magic wormhole For encrypted messaging: Signal (or your choice o

Standard replacements: For signing: signify/minisign For encryption: age For file transfer: magic wormhole For encrypted messaging: Signal (or your choice of e2e encrypted messaging platform)

ekianjo 5y ago
Signal is centralized and in no way can replace emails.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Email is default plaintext, can't force encryption on groups, leaks --- in fact, gleefully publishes --- the most important dragnet surveillance metadata (even when ostensibly encrypted), creates long term archives of secrets, is built on long term secrets, and, to boot, is in the real world itself effectively centralized. It's hard to even imagine a secure messaging system less safe than email. Recommending encrypted email is simply malpractice.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    Recommending signal fails to realize that it can be compromised in many ways precisely because it is centralized. A false sense of security.
    - 0xCMP 5y ago
      Email clients and server instances are just as centralized in practice. Yet email servers almost always know everything about you in contrast to Signal. And you can prove this by reading their code and by the fact that they respond to subpoenas with as little info as they do. How would signal be compromised that email could not and which signal is not better prepared for?
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        > Email clients and server instances are just as centralized in practice. I don't follow. Not everyone uses Gmail or the big email providers.
        kasey_junk 5y ago
        If anyone on the communication thread uses GMail or the other big providers then the entire conversation is subject to the weaknesses of the protocol. Right now that sits at about a 1 in 5 chance for Gmail alone.
georgyo 5y ago
I'm still think that OpenPGP is the best solution for the first two. But the two tools at the top have the same problems as pgp. How do you trust some key material. The WoT is a complete failure, but modern solutions like WKD are amazing and make PGP just plain work. The one nice thing about age is the ability to encrypt to a GitHub users key. However, even that is possible with OpenPGP. Here is a tool that I made ~7 years ago that does something similar: https://github.com/georgyo/sshcrypt https://github.com/georgyo/sshcrypt Another thing minisign/age don't have is a method to say that a key is compromised. I don't think the solution to the problems with OpenPGP is too just ignore the problems and switch to using bare keys like new tools are doing.
aborsy 5y ago
I wouldn’t hastily recommend unproven tools in the area security. Here is an example of a cool tool with modern cryptography, forward secret etc, often recommended in HN as an alternative to Wormhole: https://redrocket.club/posts/croc/ https://redrocket.club/posts/croc/ It turned out that plaintext could easily be recovered! One mistake and 100% broken. There are benefits to an industry standard protocol.
- cpach 5y ago
  Signify and Age are not unproven.
- throwaway45209 5y ago
  croc wasn't recommended by people on HN who knew something about cryptography, and they actually warned against it. They recommended Brian Warner's magic-wormhole, Signal, Tarsnap, age, Signify, Minisign, libsodium.
upofadown 5y ago
Age is not even close to being some sort of GPG replacement: * https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp
- imiric 5y ago
  I don't think that's a fair comparison. Age was never meant to fully replace GPG, so complaining about missing features it was never meant to have doesn't make sense. The only valid criticism is about its handling of corrupted data, but for that too you can use an external tool like PAR2 to generate recovery data. I do this with my GPG backups and other data as well. I like that age follows the Unix "do one thing well" philosophy, and that I can use other similarly scoped tools for other features. There are still some things I'm missing, but these are slowly being worked on[1,2]. [1]: https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/issues/137 https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/issues/137 [2]: https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/pull/132 https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/pull/132
  - upofadown 5y ago
    I am not sure how PAR2 helps here if your encryption utility refuses to return any data in the first place. I was responding to a comment that said that age was a "standard replacement" for GPG.
upofadown 5y ago
Signal is an instant messenger ... which is fine, but sometimes you really do need the extra security provided by an offline messaging solution like OpenPGP. The Cellebrite thing was a good example of this. Cellebrite doesn't get OpenPGP messages as they can and are usually protected by a passphrase. Cellebrite gets Signal messages.
- throwaway45209 5y ago
  Enabling 'disappearing messages' will help I think.
- cpach 5y ago
  In that case I would recommend Age. It’s a modern and sound replacement for GPG. https://age-encryption.org/ https://age-encryption.org/
  - upofadown 5y ago
    Not really. My opinion in some detail: * https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp Age might be such a replacement some day for just the encryption function. But it has a ways to go. Actually defining the format would be a good first step.
    - cpach 5y ago
      For encrypted backups, I believe that Restic is a better tool https://restic.net/ https://restic.net/
zikduruqe 5y ago
Don’t forget, keys.pub for signing, encrypted messaging, and has wormhole in it

Standard replacements: For signing: signify/minisign For encryption: age For file transfer: magic wormhole For encrypted messaging: Signal (or your choice of e2e encrypted messaging platform)

ekianjo 5y ago

Signal is centralized and in no way can replace emails.

tptacek 5y ago
Email is default plaintext, can't force encryption on groups, leaks --- in fact, gleefully publishes --- the most important dragnet surveillance metadata (even when ostensibly encrypted), creates long term archives of secrets, is built on long term secrets, and, to boot, is in the real world itself effectively centralized. It's hard to even imagine a secure messaging system less safe than email. Recommending encrypted email is simply malpractice.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Recommending signal fails to realize that it can be compromised in many ways precisely because it is centralized. A false sense of security.
  - 0xCMP 5y ago
    Email clients and server instances are just as centralized in practice. Yet email servers almost always know everything about you in contrast to Signal. And you can prove this by reading their code and by the fact that they respond to subpoenas with as little info as they do. How would signal be compromised that email could not and which signal is not better prepared for?
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      > Email clients and server instances are just as centralized in practice. I don't follow. Not everyone uses Gmail or the big email providers.
      - kasey_junk 5y ago
        If anyone on the communication thread uses GMail or the other big providers then the entire conversation is subject to the weaknesses of the protocol. Right now that sits at about a 1 in 5 chance for Gmail alone.

georgyo 5y ago

I'm still think that OpenPGP is the best solution for the first two. But the two tools at the top have the same problems as pgp. How do you trust some key material. The WoT is a complete failure, but modern solutions like WKD are amazing and make PGP just plain work. The one nice thing about age is the ability to encrypt to a GitHub users key. However, even that is possible with OpenPGP. Here is a tool that I made ~7 years ago that does something similar: https://github.com/georgyo/sshcrypt https://github.com/georgyo/sshcrypt Another thing minisign/age don't have is a method to say that a key is compromised. I don't think the solution to the problems with OpenPGP is too just ignore the problems and switch to using bare keys like new tools are doing.

aborsy 5y ago

I wouldn’t hastily recommend unproven tools in the area security. Here is an example of a cool tool with modern cryptography, forward secret etc, often recommended in HN as an alternative to Wormhole: https://redrocket.club/posts/croc/ https://redrocket.club/posts/croc/ It turned out that plaintext could easily be recovered! One mistake and 100% broken. There are benefits to an industry standard protocol.

cpach 5y ago
Signify and Age are not unproven.
throwaway45209 5y ago
croc wasn't recommended by people on HN who knew something about cryptography, and they actually warned against it. They recommended Brian Warner's magic-wormhole, Signal, Tarsnap, age, Signify, Minisign, libsodium.

upofadown 5y ago

Age is not even close to being some sort of GPG replacement: * https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp

imiric 5y ago
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Age was never meant to fully replace GPG, so complaining about missing features it was never meant to have doesn't make sense. The only valid criticism is about its handling of corrupted data, but for that too you can use an external tool like PAR2 to generate recovery data. I do this with my GPG backups and other data as well. I like that age follows the Unix "do one thing well" philosophy, and that I can use other similarly scoped tools for other features. There are still some things I'm missing, but these are slowly being worked on[1,2]. [1]: https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/issues/137 https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/issues/137 [2]: https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/pull/132 https://github.com/FiloSottile/age/pull/132
- upofadown 5y ago
  I am not sure how PAR2 helps here if your encryption utility refuses to return any data in the first place. I was responding to a comment that said that age was a "standard replacement" for GPG.

upofadown 5y ago

Signal is an instant messenger ... which is fine, but sometimes you really do need the extra security provided by an offline messaging solution like OpenPGP. The Cellebrite thing was a good example of this. Cellebrite doesn't get OpenPGP messages as they can and are usually protected by a passphrase. Cellebrite gets Signal messages.

throwaway45209 5y ago
Enabling 'disappearing messages' will help I think.
cpach 5y ago
In that case I would recommend Age. It’s a modern and sound replacement for GPG. https://age-encryption.org/ https://age-encryption.org/
- upofadown 5y ago
  Not really. My opinion in some detail: * https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgpfan:agevspgp Age might be such a replacement some day for just the encryption function. But it has a ways to go. Actually defining the format would be a good first step.
  - cpach 5y ago
    For encrypted backups, I believe that Restic is a better tool https://restic.net/ https://restic.net/

zikduruqe 5y ago

Don’t forget, keys.pub for signing, encrypted messaging, and has wormhole in it