5 ms·

I would probably venture to say that the 2021 iMac is also an outstanding and very capable developer workstation for 95% of developers out there. Now, I know t

I would probably venture to say that the 2021 iMac is also an outstanding and very capable developer workstation for 95% of developers out there. Now, I know this will illicit dismayed responses from the other 5% who want 256GB of RAM, or a RAID-45.1375 18TB array, or some other edge cases, but I suspect we'll see this iMac show up in a lot of startup offices over the next year.

lowercased 5y ago
I don't particularly care for 256, but 32 would be useful. I don't know if that puts me in the mythical "5%" or not.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  I second this. Once I got 64 gigs in a desktop, life just became easier.
smoldesu 5y ago
I dunno, I think most people will still err on the side of x86. Most developers aren't deploying to ARM, so it's a pretty difficult value proposition to sell someone a computer where they can't even natively debug their program. Maybe my workflow constitutes that "five percent" you're talking about, but part of me also knows that most developers will probably be pretty disappointed with just 8 gigs of ram and 256 gigs of storage. Especially if you install XCode, one of the most asinine and largest programs I've ever seen.
- epmaybe 5y ago
  I'm not the most "organized" or "sophisticated" developer (I mainly code for fun or basic research related experiments), and I mainly do everything from my m1 MacBook Air. If I need to test something that will need more hardware, I fire up my desktop. Edit: Also, the M1 has a lot of surprising performance. I can run two 4k 30fps cameras off of it, display to a 4k monitor, and stream the video to another computer. My 2017 MBP struggled with this much.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Have you gotten two displays to connect to it yet? That's my biggest bottleneck right now.
    - jamesgeck0 5y ago
      Yeah, I used a $40 DisplayLink adapter.
    - epmaybe 5y ago
      What the other commenter said, displaylink works, but it’s not ideal and adds additional overhead like using up precious usb bandwidth for my work. I have learned to live with only two displays, plus an iPad for airplay. I’d wait for the next generation if multi display is necessary.
- indymike 5y ago
  It is remarkable how much space xcode + Android studio eat of 256gb. Especially given that a 1TB SSD costs what, $100 at consumer prices?
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Apple Prices > Consumer Prices
    - indymike 5y ago
      256GB is a poor user experience. Apple needs to sell bigger SSDs.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Apple does sell bigger SSDs, they're just marked up higher than any other manufacturer in the industry.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  I’d be curious what proportion of developers build to a specific ISA at all, versus simply caring that their tools are available for the one they’re developing for.
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  Most popular modern languages aren't low level enough for developers to care about architectural differences unless they are trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance. However, the x86 chip in your laptop and the x86 chip running on your deployment target, probably aren't similar enough to help you reach that goal. Also worth noting that ARM is becoming increasingly popular in the cloud services space, so that x86 advantage will deplete significantly with time. I have a M1 Macbook Pro with 8GB ram and 256 GB storage. I bought it mainly to play with, but I've found it surprisingly capable and I've used it for some moderate development workloads and even some gaming (Metro Exodus)! I've found it pretty fantastic for the most part, but I have to constantly make difficult decisions about exactly what I want to have running and stored on the device. For instance, running Docker rapidly consumes both memory and storage resources. I'd definitely recommend buying the Mac SKUs with 16GB memory and more storage, if you want to make it your primary workstation. I think 16GB is probably enough for most development workloads though, that's generally what I'm given for a work laptop an it's worked out okay.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    >However, the x86 chip in your laptop and the x86 chip running on your deployment target, probably aren't similar enough to help you reach that goal. Cross-compiling is still very buggy, code built for ARM on x86 can still just _not work_ correctly when deployed on ARM. In such cases, it really does help that my laptop is running x86. I hope running arm stuff will be similar.
    - scoopertrooper 5y ago
      There is no theoretical limitation on the ability to cross-compile between architectures. There may be bugs in individual compilers or mistakes made in configuring them, but those sorts of problems are solvable. However, how often do you locally compile the binary you deploy? Every company for which I've worked has delegated that activity to a build server.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
pottertheotter 5y ago
For me it's the screen. Been using an ultrawide for several years and I could never go back. Also, I hear that you don't need as much RAM with an M1, but I don't have personal experience. I do know that I regularly push the limits of my 32GB Hackintosh and, using it only for web browsing, our 8GB Surface quickly becomes close to useless. I know the sort of edge case people you're talking about. I'm most definitely not one.
- unicornfinder 5y ago
  To be honest the line of not needing as much RAM because M1 is total nonsense. Rather, it's just that people in general don't need as much RAM as they think they do, but ultimately if you need a lot of RAM for docker, development, whatever, then M1 isn't going to change that.
- hughrr 5y ago
  I’m running an 8Gb MacBook Air. This replaced my 32Gb i5 Mac mini. And it’s fine. I don’t hit any memory pressure. To do this I accept two compromises: no virtual machines, light weight editor (vim). The VMs I spin up when I need them in the cloud. Turns out this works out better than it did before anyway. No fan grinding away and I’ve got a laptop again finally which doesn’t singe my genitals. I was running vscode with no problems as well but found some annoying bugs so went back to vim which has served me well for 20 years now.
incanus77 5y ago
I don’t know, I feel that people have to recalibrate their RAM expectations and experience just as they have their speed and battery life expectations with M1. When all of your experience is grounded in the x86 era whose time is up, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.
brundolf 5y ago
Laptops are very common at tech companies, especially in WFH times. It's really nice being able to just carry your workstation to a meeting room or a coffee shop or your house. Now with that said, I was a little disappointed last week when I was issued a 16" Pro for my new job rather than an M1...
Hamuko 5y ago
The size of the screen and the limited IO make the 2021 iMac not really a great professional development device.
Zababa 5y ago
> Now, I know this will illicit dismayed responses from the other 5% who want 256GB of RAM, or a RAID-45.1375 18TB array, or some other edge cases, but I suspect we'll see this iMac show up in a lot of startup offices over the next year. I don't really like how you characterize people wanting a bit more RAM and disk space. Sure, maybe it's not essential and mostly confort, but as a developer it's nice to not be limited too much by your machine. 16GB of RAM and 512GB of disk space is perfectly reasonable to ask for, especially since the Docker experience is quite a bit worse than on Linux. Edit: As mentionned below, you can have 16GB of RAM and up to 2TB of disk space, so ignore this comment.
- stu2b50 5y ago
  >16GB of RAM and 512GB of disk space is perfectly reasonable to ask for Perfectly reasonable to ask for, and perfectly reasonable to receive, since that is a config available on the current M1 machines.

lowercased 5y ago

I don't particularly care for 256, but 32 would be useful. I don't know if that puts me in the mythical "5%" or not.

eptcyka 5y ago
I second this. Once I got 64 gigs in a desktop, life just became easier.

smoldesu 5y ago

I dunno, I think most people will still err on the side of x86. Most developers aren't deploying to ARM, so it's a pretty difficult value proposition to sell someone a computer where they can't even natively debug their program. Maybe my workflow constitutes that "five percent" you're talking about, but part of me also knows that most developers will probably be pretty disappointed with just 8 gigs of ram and 256 gigs of storage. Especially if you install XCode, one of the most asinine and largest programs I've ever seen.

epmaybe 5y ago
I'm not the most "organized" or "sophisticated" developer (I mainly code for fun or basic research related experiments), and I mainly do everything from my m1 MacBook Air. If I need to test something that will need more hardware, I fire up my desktop. Edit: Also, the M1 has a lot of surprising performance. I can run two 4k 30fps cameras off of it, display to a 4k monitor, and stream the video to another computer. My 2017 MBP struggled with this much.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Have you gotten two displays to connect to it yet? That's my biggest bottleneck right now.
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    Yeah, I used a $40 DisplayLink adapter.
  - epmaybe 5y ago
    What the other commenter said, displaylink works, but it’s not ideal and adds additional overhead like using up precious usb bandwidth for my work. I have learned to live with only two displays, plus an iPad for airplay. I’d wait for the next generation if multi display is necessary.
indymike 5y ago
It is remarkable how much space xcode + Android studio eat of 256gb. Especially given that a 1TB SSD costs what, $100 at consumer prices?
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Apple Prices > Consumer Prices
  - indymike 5y ago
    256GB is a poor user experience. Apple needs to sell bigger SSDs.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Apple does sell bigger SSDs, they're just marked up higher than any other manufacturer in the industry.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’d be curious what proportion of developers build to a specific ISA at all, versus simply caring that their tools are available for the one they’re developing for.
scoopertrooper 5y ago
Most popular modern languages aren't low level enough for developers to care about architectural differences unless they are trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance. However, the x86 chip in your laptop and the x86 chip running on your deployment target, probably aren't similar enough to help you reach that goal. Also worth noting that ARM is becoming increasingly popular in the cloud services space, so that x86 advantage will deplete significantly with time. I have a M1 Macbook Pro with 8GB ram and 256 GB storage. I bought it mainly to play with, but I've found it surprisingly capable and I've used it for some moderate development workloads and even some gaming (Metro Exodus)! I've found it pretty fantastic for the most part, but I have to constantly make difficult decisions about exactly what I want to have running and stored on the device. For instance, running Docker rapidly consumes both memory and storage resources. I'd definitely recommend buying the Mac SKUs with 16GB memory and more storage, if you want to make it your primary workstation. I think 16GB is probably enough for most development workloads though, that's generally what I'm given for a work laptop an it's worked out okay.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  >However, the x86 chip in your laptop and the x86 chip running on your deployment target, probably aren't similar enough to help you reach that goal. Cross-compiling is still very buggy, code built for ARM on x86 can still just _not work_ correctly when deployed on ARM. In such cases, it really does help that my laptop is running x86. I hope running arm stuff will be similar.
  - scoopertrooper 5y ago
    There is no theoretical limitation on the ability to cross-compile between architectures. There may be bugs in individual compilers or mistakes made in configuring them, but those sorts of problems are solvable. However, how often do you locally compile the binary you deploy? Every company for which I've worked has delegated that activity to a build server.
    - smoldesu 5y ago

pottertheotter 5y ago

For me it's the screen. Been using an ultrawide for several years and I could never go back. Also, I hear that you don't need as much RAM with an M1, but I don't have personal experience. I do know that I regularly push the limits of my 32GB Hackintosh and, using it only for web browsing, our 8GB Surface quickly becomes close to useless. I know the sort of edge case people you're talking about. I'm most definitely not one.

unicornfinder 5y ago
To be honest the line of not needing as much RAM because M1 is total nonsense. Rather, it's just that people in general don't need as much RAM as they think they do, but ultimately if you need a lot of RAM for docker, development, whatever, then M1 isn't going to change that.
hughrr 5y ago
I’m running an 8Gb MacBook Air. This replaced my 32Gb i5 Mac mini. And it’s fine. I don’t hit any memory pressure. To do this I accept two compromises: no virtual machines, light weight editor (vim). The VMs I spin up when I need them in the cloud. Turns out this works out better than it did before anyway. No fan grinding away and I’ve got a laptop again finally which doesn’t singe my genitals. I was running vscode with no problems as well but found some annoying bugs so went back to vim which has served me well for 20 years now.

incanus77 5y ago

I don’t know, I feel that people have to recalibrate their RAM expectations and experience just as they have their speed and battery life expectations with M1. When all of your experience is grounded in the x86 era whose time is up, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.

brundolf 5y ago

Laptops are very common at tech companies, especially in WFH times. It's really nice being able to just carry your workstation to a meeting room or a coffee shop or your house. Now with that said, I was a little disappointed last week when I was issued a 16" Pro for my new job rather than an M1...

Hamuko 5y ago

The size of the screen and the limited IO make the 2021 iMac not really a great professional development device.

Zababa 5y ago

> Now, I know this will illicit dismayed responses from the other 5% who want 256GB of RAM, or a RAID-45.1375 18TB array, or some other edge cases, but I suspect we'll see this iMac show up in a lot of startup offices over the next year. I don't really like how you characterize people wanting a bit more RAM and disk space. Sure, maybe it's not essential and mostly confort, but as a developer it's nice to not be limited too much by your machine. 16GB of RAM and 512GB of disk space is perfectly reasonable to ask for, especially since the Docker experience is quite a bit worse than on Linux. Edit: As mentionned below, you can have 16GB of RAM and up to 2TB of disk space, so ignore this comment.

stu2b50 5y ago
>16GB of RAM and 512GB of disk space is perfectly reasonable to ask for Perfectly reasonable to ask for, and perfectly reasonable to receive, since that is a config available on the current M1 machines.