8 ms·

Austrian here, we are somewhat in between Russians and Americans, when it comes to smiling. But what I can tell you is that life is just so much better when peo

by zeroc8 5y ago

Austrian here, we are somewhat in between Russians and Americans, when it comes to smiling. But what I can tell you is that life is just so much better when people smile at you, even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine. My comparison stems from having worked with both Russians and Americans. Being around grumpy Russians all day long makes live really miserable.

ferdowsi 5y ago
Cannot agree enough. I joined a startup that very clearly initially hired for Russian cultural fit (friends hiring friends) and the mood was like attending a funeral on a daily basis. During interviewing, the hiring manager very cleverly had the minority of native-born Americans speak to me so I never got a feel for the actual culture. I couldn't imagine working long for a place where every day seemed like solitary misery, especially remote during a pandemic, where rapport and ease of communication matters a lot. Didn't help that the quality of engineering work was absolutely abysmal (see friends hiring friends). Was contacting recruiters within a week.
- borroka 5y ago
  Smiling and being entertaining are not correlated (personal experience after a few decades of being alive). There are few everyday situations worse than being welcomed by a smile which looks fake one mile out. A genuine smile is not an every-second gesture.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  Weird, the only big “Russian cultural fit” issue I can think of is gendered norms and complete disregard for “political correctness”. People often make jokes at the workplace and make small talk, but yes, we don’t usually have big smiles during normal conversations or greetings.
firebaze 5y ago
I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in another ("non-friendly") culture. Most of the "not-friendly" cultures would invite you to a free beer, asking what happened etc.
- sebular 5y ago
  I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever. It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. As if the default is hostile intent. It sounds like a terrible thing to assume about your fellow stranger, to be honest. Maybe the point is that if you start off assuming maximum hostility, the reality is more likely to be a pleasant surprise? At any rate, we have common ground when it comes to those meaningless questions. They're hollow and they ruin the perfection of a nice wordless smile or simple "hi" or "hey". The absolute worst is when you pass a stranger and say "hi" and they respond to your back as they walk off into the distance, "hey, how ya doin?"
  - throwaway316943 5y ago
    I don’t think people are assuming hostility, the article explains that it simply means a different thing e.g. laughter instead of positivity. Imagine if you were to go about your day winking at everyone you saw, people would think you were strange or somewhat crazy, they might think you’re hitting on them or perhaps had some sinister intent.
  - iJohnDoe 5y ago
    > It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. I would say this is pretty common in the USA. Anyone smiling or laughing, especially in the customer service industry, can easily be interpreted that they are up to something. Makes customers uncomfortable. Obviously a generalized statement, but it seems most food and customer service industries despise their customers.
  - chousuke 5y ago
    I don't know how much of this is me being Finnish, but I personally don't even know how to smile at will; a smile is something that happens naturally and trying to deliberately smile at people when I'm not actually feeling it just makes me feel dishonest and usually results in a grimace instead. While I might really be enjoying a good walk in the sun for example, I can't really say that it makes me want to smile at every random passer-by.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I had a language exchange with an austrian once. I was joking and chatting with him the whole time but he was always reluctant to smile. By hot damn did I get him to do it.
retsibsi 5y ago
> even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine I reckon there are a couple of ways we could define a 'genuine' smile. Most strictly, as a basically involuntary expression of emotion. More loosely, we could include voluntary smiles as long as they are a sincere signal of goodwill. I don't really want to be smiled at by people who hate me, but I think there's plenty to be said for cultural norms in favour of 'genuine' smiles under the looser definition.

by zeroc8 5y ago

ferdowsi 5y ago

Cannot agree enough. I joined a startup that very clearly initially hired for Russian cultural fit (friends hiring friends) and the mood was like attending a funeral on a daily basis. During interviewing, the hiring manager very cleverly had the minority of native-born Americans speak to me so I never got a feel for the actual culture. I couldn't imagine working long for a place where every day seemed like solitary misery, especially remote during a pandemic, where rapport and ease of communication matters a lot. Didn't help that the quality of engineering work was absolutely abysmal (see friends hiring friends). Was contacting recruiters within a week.

borroka 5y ago
Smiling and being entertaining are not correlated (personal experience after a few decades of being alive). There are few everyday situations worse than being welcomed by a smile which looks fake one mile out. A genuine smile is not an every-second gesture.
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
Weird, the only big “Russian cultural fit” issue I can think of is gendered norms and complete disregard for “political correctness”. People often make jokes at the workplace and make small talk, but yes, we don’t usually have big smiles during normal conversations or greetings.

firebaze 5y ago

I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in another ("non-friendly") culture. Most of the "not-friendly" cultures would invite you to a free beer, asking what happened etc.

sebular 5y ago
I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever. It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. As if the default is hostile intent. It sounds like a terrible thing to assume about your fellow stranger, to be honest. Maybe the point is that if you start off assuming maximum hostility, the reality is more likely to be a pleasant surprise? At any rate, we have common ground when it comes to those meaningless questions. They're hollow and they ruin the perfection of a nice wordless smile or simple "hi" or "hey". The absolute worst is when you pass a stranger and say "hi" and they respond to your back as they walk off into the distance, "hey, how ya doin?"
- throwaway316943 5y ago
  I don’t think people are assuming hostility, the article explains that it simply means a different thing e.g. laughter instead of positivity. Imagine if you were to go about your day winking at everyone you saw, people would think you were strange or somewhat crazy, they might think you’re hitting on them or perhaps had some sinister intent.
- iJohnDoe 5y ago
  > It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. I would say this is pretty common in the USA. Anyone smiling or laughing, especially in the customer service industry, can easily be interpreted that they are up to something. Makes customers uncomfortable. Obviously a generalized statement, but it seems most food and customer service industries despise their customers.
- chousuke 5y ago
  I don't know how much of this is me being Finnish, but I personally don't even know how to smile at will; a smile is something that happens naturally and trying to deliberately smile at people when I'm not actually feeling it just makes me feel dishonest and usually results in a grimace instead. While I might really be enjoying a good walk in the sun for example, I can't really say that it makes me want to smile at every random passer-by.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

I had a language exchange with an austrian once. I was joking and chatting with him the whole time but he was always reluctant to smile. By hot damn did I get him to do it.

retsibsi 5y ago

> even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine I reckon there are a couple of ways we could define a 'genuine' smile. Most strictly, as a basically involuntary expression of emotion. More loosely, we could include voluntary smiles as long as they are a sincere signal of goodwill. I don't really want to be smiled at by people who hate me, but I think there's plenty to be said for cultural norms in favour of 'genuine' smiles under the looser definition.