6 ms·

Mona Lisa was special in part because it was uncommon for people to smile. In Middle Ages, someone smiling a lot would be perceived as stupid. That's why facial

by b0rsuk 5y ago

Mona Lisa was special in part because it was uncommon for people to smile. In Middle Ages, someone smiling a lot would be perceived as stupid. That's why facial expressions in medieval imagery are so serious. Today, being surprised a lot is often taken as a sign of stupidity, whereas in ancient Greece an owl was the bird of Athena, the goddess of wisdom. Because, obviously, an owl is always surprised, and surprise is the first step to understanding.

nostromo 5y ago
Smiling prominently for portraits seemed to become more popular only after modern dentistry became common. I imagine most people in the Middle Ages (and much later) had chipped, missing, buckled, crooked and stained teeth. Now pristine teeth are a signal of wealth (even though they're usually 100% fake veneers, at least among actors and models) so people want to signal their wealth by smiling prominently.
- brixon 5y ago
  It was also an issue of the speed of capture. Paintings and old Cameras had long exposure times so you needed a pose that you could hold for a long time. https://time.com/4568032/smile-serious-old-photos/ https://time.com/4568032/smile-serious-old-photos/
- B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
  Used to be that you checked cattle's teeth for problems before buying - that's why it's impolite to "look a gift horse in the mouth". Also done with slaves, from what I've read. Nowadays it's voluntary, sort of.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  You don't have to open your mouth or show your teeth when you smile.
- rjsw 5y ago
  Teeth in skeletons from the Middle Ages seem fine. It is later ones, after bringing sugar back from the Americas, that have lots of cavities and missing teeth.
  - ajross 5y ago
    Both beets and sugar cane are old world plants, and maize-based corn syrup wasn't used as a sweetener until the 20th century. It's true that refined sugar is terrible for dental health, but it didn't come from the americas.
    - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
      It wasn’t known that beets could be exploited for sugar until the 16th century. Sugar cane was not known in Europe (outside Muslim-ruled areas of Spain) until post-Colombian times. In antiquity, the sole common means of sweetening food in Europe was honey, and later dulce de leche.
      - inglor_cz 5y ago
        Or extracts from sweet fruit like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powidl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powidl
        BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
        Or, something more Roman, lead! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Check out the thesis of the recent bestseller Breath by James Nestor. Native American and other traditional cultures put serious emphasis on nose breathing, strictly avoiding mouth breathing. Apparently, consistent nose-breathing can affect nasal and upper-palate development, favoring a spacious mouth and straighter teeth. It can also help avoid dry mouth at night, apparently favoring resistance to dental caries. There is a book by a 19th century ethnographer who discovered some of this, titled Shut Your Mouth and Save Your Life.[1] [1] https://www.consciousbreathing.com/articles/shut-your-mouth-save-your-life/ https://www.consciousbreathing.com/articles/shut-your-mouth-...
ptr2voidStar 5y ago
Fascinating insight. It is little gems such as these, that make HN a cut above the rest.
- hallarempt 5y ago
  Pity it's not true.
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    Please elaborate
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Actually it's the OP who should probably provide some proof for the claim.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
coldtea 5y ago
>In Middle Ages, someone smiling a lot would be perceived as stupid. Unfortunately 20th-century photo magazines, TV, and later Instagram and selfies changed that...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- axtscz 5y ago
  Why would that be unfortunate? Isn't smiling a good thing?
  - coldtea 5y ago
    No, it indicates being an idiot (and/or a fake). The old ones had it right.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  No they didn't.
pmoriarty 5y ago
This reminds me of some articles showing smiling Victorians, like this one: [1] Seeing them helps counter the general impression we get from seeing so many dour-faced Victorians from photographs of that era. [1] - https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/11/24/smiling-victorians/ https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/11/24/smiling-victorians...
Florin_Andrei 5y ago
Athena Glaukopis Well, it's complicated. Glaukopis could also be translated as "blue eyed", or "grey eyed", not just "owl eyed". Being the goddess of wisdom and handicraft (among other things), perception was a crucial attribute. Having big eyes (like the owl) could be interpreted as having good visual perception. But it's not just about the size. She's also described as having "bright eyes", or "flashing eyes", or "darting eyes". It's more about the acuity of perception, than about some emotional aspect.
grayclhn 5y ago
I mean, life was objectively a lot worse in the Middle Ages. Give a person from that era a McMansion and tell them to expect clean water, a hamburger, and a soft modern bed every night, they’ll smile too.

by b0rsuk 5y ago

nostromo 5y ago

Smiling prominently for portraits seemed to become more popular only after modern dentistry became common. I imagine most people in the Middle Ages (and much later) had chipped, missing, buckled, crooked and stained teeth. Now pristine teeth are a signal of wealth (even though they're usually 100% fake veneers, at least among actors and models) so people want to signal their wealth by smiling prominently.

brixon 5y ago
It was also an issue of the speed of capture. Paintings and old Cameras had long exposure times so you needed a pose that you could hold for a long time. https://time.com/4568032/smile-serious-old-photos/ https://time.com/4568032/smile-serious-old-photos/
B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
Used to be that you checked cattle's teeth for problems before buying - that's why it's impolite to "look a gift horse in the mouth". Also done with slaves, from what I've read. Nowadays it's voluntary, sort of.
pmoriarty 5y ago
You don't have to open your mouth or show your teeth when you smile.
rjsw 5y ago
Teeth in skeletons from the Middle Ages seem fine. It is later ones, after bringing sugar back from the Americas, that have lots of cavities and missing teeth.
- ajross 5y ago
  Both beets and sugar cane are old world plants, and maize-based corn syrup wasn't used as a sweetener until the 20th century. It's true that refined sugar is terrible for dental health, but it didn't come from the americas.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    It wasn’t known that beets could be exploited for sugar until the 16th century. Sugar cane was not known in Europe (outside Muslim-ruled areas of Spain) until post-Colombian times. In antiquity, the sole common means of sweetening food in Europe was honey, and later dulce de leche.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      Or extracts from sweet fruit like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powidl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powidl
      - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
        Or, something more Roman, lead! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate
- a9h74j 5y ago
  Check out the thesis of the recent bestseller Breath by James Nestor. Native American and other traditional cultures put serious emphasis on nose breathing, strictly avoiding mouth breathing. Apparently, consistent nose-breathing can affect nasal and upper-palate development, favoring a spacious mouth and straighter teeth. It can also help avoid dry mouth at night, apparently favoring resistance to dental caries. There is a book by a 19th century ethnographer who discovered some of this, titled Shut Your Mouth and Save Your Life.[1] [1] https://www.consciousbreathing.com/articles/shut-your-mouth-save-your-life/ https://www.consciousbreathing.com/articles/shut-your-mouth-...

ptr2voidStar 5y ago

Fascinating insight. It is little gems such as these, that make HN a cut above the rest.

hallarempt 5y ago
Pity it's not true.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Please elaborate
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Actually it's the OP who should probably provide some proof for the claim.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

coldtea 5y ago

>In Middle Ages, someone smiling a lot would be perceived as stupid. Unfortunately 20th-century photo magazines, TV, and later Instagram and selfies changed that...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
axtscz 5y ago
Why would that be unfortunate? Isn't smiling a good thing?
- coldtea 5y ago
  No, it indicates being an idiot (and/or a fake). The old ones had it right.
CRConrad 5y ago
No they didn't.

pmoriarty 5y ago

This reminds me of some articles showing smiling Victorians, like this one: [1] Seeing them helps counter the general impression we get from seeing so many dour-faced Victorians from photographs of that era. [1] - https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/11/24/smiling-victorians/ https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/11/24/smiling-victorians...

Florin_Andrei 5y ago

Athena Glaukopis Well, it's complicated. Glaukopis could also be translated as "blue eyed", or "grey eyed", not just "owl eyed". Being the goddess of wisdom and handicraft (among other things), perception was a crucial attribute. Having big eyes (like the owl) could be interpreted as having good visual perception. But it's not just about the size. She's also described as having "bright eyes", or "flashing eyes", or "darting eyes". It's more about the acuity of perception, than about some emotional aspect.

grayclhn 5y ago

I mean, life was objectively a lot worse in the Middle Ages. Give a person from that era a McMansion and tell them to expect clean water, a hamburger, and a soft modern bed every night, they’ll smile too.