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Does anybody have any ideas as to what this means for people who've had COVID and then get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines? If not, is anyone studying

Does anybody have any ideas as to what this means for people who've had COVID and then get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines? If not, is anyone studying this?

XorNot 5y ago
Probably that the vaccine is somewhat irrelevant: though that's up for grabs since what your body targets vs. what the vaccine targets will be subtly different. I'm more interested that this means that quite likely, COVID-19 will be eradicated: with not many advantageous mutation pathways, and if vaccines are conferring immunity forever, it's pretty much going to be burned out of the population one way or the other.
- jokowueu 5y ago
  >with not many advantageous mutation pathways I was under the impression that any mutations to the spike proteins would make the current vaccines useless and would require changes to the vaccines just like the flu shot . Isn't this the case ?
  - carlmr 5y ago
    It is the case, but with natural immunity slowly building up it will probably become more like a normal cold that you get as soon as a few variants have been seen by the world's immune systems.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    >I was under the impression that any mutations to the spike proteins would make the current vaccines useless and would require changes to the vaccines just like the flu shot . Isn't this the case ? No, it is not the case. You don't just make one antibody that targets the entire spike that would be thrown off by a mutation. >Human Antibodies Target Many Parts of Coronavirus Spike Protein https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/05/18/human-antibodies-target-many-parts-of-coronavirus-spike-protein/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/05/18/human-antibodies-ta... So far, all the claims that a variant (London variant, South African variant, Indian variant) would be immune to the current vaccine have turned out to be unwarranted.
- jhugo 5y ago
  By saying it will quite likely be eradicated, you’re assuming herd_immunity_threshold% vaccination is achieved, aren’t you? There are countries that are yet to achieve even 1% and some populations are likely to never achieve the threshold for immunity in that population.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    He is saying herd immunity will be achieved before the virus has a chance to mutate and escape it (it's quite unambiguous here). The GP's comment says nothing explicitly about time frame, but sounds pessimistic on that.
- aledalgrande 5y ago
  It won't be. Look at vaccines in the US, the have flattened out at around 50%. Many countries are <30%. And there are animal reservoirs. This is not like polio.
ovi256 5y ago
Probably nothing at all, the mRNA vaccine will just prompt the body to make even more antibodies against the variants from the vaccine. I expect having stronger flu-like side-effects on the first injection instead of the usual second mRNA injection. For this reason, if you had diagnosed COVID, in France you'll be injected a single dose of mRNA vaccine and be considered immune.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  I had COVID at the end of December. I just got my first Pfizer dose yesterday. Almost no side effects, just a bit of sensitivity around the jab site. And a very slight chill feeling for a few hours.
exhilaration 5y ago
I think you might be referring to those social media posts that suggest that the mRNA vaccines undo the immunity afforded by an infection. Those stories are false, here's more information: https://factcheck.afp.com/american-red-cross-accepts-plasma-donations-covid-19-vaccine-recipients https://factcheck.afp.com/american-red-cross-accepts-plasma-...
3327 5y ago
Yes i am studying this and have data on covid + post covid quarterly antibody markets followed by one dose pfizer and monthly markers. In a nutshell - covid patients have sustained antibodies, non covid with vaccine groups have faster decay from Peak concentration.
GeekyBear 5y ago
There's some evidence that a second dose of mRNA vaccine isn't necessary if you were infected with Covid. >People who have already had confirmed covid-19 might only need a single dose of a mRNA vaccine, two small studies have indicated. Two weeks after a single dose of vaccine, people who had previously had covid-19 had antibody concentrations that were as high, or up to 10 times higher, than the levels seen in uninfected people who had received two doses of the vaccine. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308
- leesalminen 5y ago
  This HN user [0] has an anecdote to challenge this evidence. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27315459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27315459
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    How does that challenge this evidence?
- cableshaft 5y ago
  This is important when vaccine supplies are limited (in some places in the world that's the case), but not if they aren't. "Since then, one study after another has reinforced the single-vaccine-for-survivors idea, though some skeptics have pointed out that it is logistically simpler to just give everyone two doses than to figure out who needs only one...Cheng at Cedars-Sinai said she would still default to the CDC guidance calling for two vaccines, even for people who have had COVID-19. The data does suggest, however, that one dose could be enough" https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/04/18/world/coronavirus-vaccine-doses/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/04/18/world/coronavir...
  - moses-palmer 5y ago
    I think supply is not the only thing to consider. I suffered a SARS-CoV-2 infection around Easter, and received my first vaccine dose a week ago. The days after that I felt much worse that when I had the actual infection, albeit for a shorter time, so I personally would appreciate an official recommendation to not have to take the second dose.
GuB-42 5y ago
At the end of the article. > Ellebedy’s team has observed early signs that Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine should trigger the production of the same cells. But the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is we will need a booster.” The idea seems to be that an infection is like a single dose of the vaccine, so you still need another shot for the best immunity.

Does anybody have any ideas as to what this means for people who've had COVID and then get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines? If not, is anyone studying this?

XorNot 5y ago

Probably that the vaccine is somewhat irrelevant: though that's up for grabs since what your body targets vs. what the vaccine targets will be subtly different. I'm more interested that this means that quite likely, COVID-19 will be eradicated: with not many advantageous mutation pathways, and if vaccines are conferring immunity forever, it's pretty much going to be burned out of the population one way or the other.

jokowueu 5y ago
>with not many advantageous mutation pathways I was under the impression that any mutations to the spike proteins would make the current vaccines useless and would require changes to the vaccines just like the flu shot . Isn't this the case ?
- carlmr 5y ago
  It is the case, but with natural immunity slowly building up it will probably become more like a normal cold that you get as soon as a few variants have been seen by the world's immune systems.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  >I was under the impression that any mutations to the spike proteins would make the current vaccines useless and would require changes to the vaccines just like the flu shot . Isn't this the case ? No, it is not the case. You don't just make one antibody that targets the entire spike that would be thrown off by a mutation. >Human Antibodies Target Many Parts of Coronavirus Spike Protein https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/05/18/human-antibodies-target-many-parts-of-coronavirus-spike-protein/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/05/18/human-antibodies-ta... So far, all the claims that a variant (London variant, South African variant, Indian variant) would be immune to the current vaccine have turned out to be unwarranted.
jhugo 5y ago
By saying it will quite likely be eradicated, you’re assuming herd_immunity_threshold% vaccination is achieved, aren’t you? There are countries that are yet to achieve even 1% and some populations are likely to never achieve the threshold for immunity in that population.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  He is saying herd immunity will be achieved before the virus has a chance to mutate and escape it (it's quite unambiguous here). The GP's comment says nothing explicitly about time frame, but sounds pessimistic on that.
aledalgrande 5y ago
It won't be. Look at vaccines in the US, the have flattened out at around 50%. Many countries are <30%. And there are animal reservoirs. This is not like polio.

ovi256 5y ago

Probably nothing at all, the mRNA vaccine will just prompt the body to make even more antibodies against the variants from the vaccine. I expect having stronger flu-like side-effects on the first injection instead of the usual second mRNA injection. For this reason, if you had diagnosed COVID, in France you'll be injected a single dose of mRNA vaccine and be considered immune.

inglor_cz 5y ago
I had COVID at the end of December. I just got my first Pfizer dose yesterday. Almost no side effects, just a bit of sensitivity around the jab site. And a very slight chill feeling for a few hours.

exhilaration 5y ago

I think you might be referring to those social media posts that suggest that the mRNA vaccines undo the immunity afforded by an infection. Those stories are false, here's more information: https://factcheck.afp.com/american-red-cross-accepts-plasma-donations-covid-19-vaccine-recipients https://factcheck.afp.com/american-red-cross-accepts-plasma-...

3327 5y ago

Yes i am studying this and have data on covid + post covid quarterly antibody markets followed by one dose pfizer and monthly markers. In a nutshell - covid patients have sustained antibodies, non covid with vaccine groups have faster decay from Peak concentration.

GeekyBear 5y ago

There's some evidence that a second dose of mRNA vaccine isn't necessary if you were infected with Covid. >People who have already had confirmed covid-19 might only need a single dose of a mRNA vaccine, two small studies have indicated. Two weeks after a single dose of vaccine, people who had previously had covid-19 had antibody concentrations that were as high, or up to 10 times higher, than the levels seen in uninfected people who had received two doses of the vaccine. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308

leesalminen 5y ago
This HN user [0] has an anecdote to challenge this evidence. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27315459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27315459
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  How does that challenge this evidence?
cableshaft 5y ago
This is important when vaccine supplies are limited (in some places in the world that's the case), but not if they aren't. "Since then, one study after another has reinforced the single-vaccine-for-survivors idea, though some skeptics have pointed out that it is logistically simpler to just give everyone two doses than to figure out who needs only one...Cheng at Cedars-Sinai said she would still default to the CDC guidance calling for two vaccines, even for people who have had COVID-19. The data does suggest, however, that one dose could be enough" https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/04/18/world/coronavirus-vaccine-doses/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/04/18/world/coronavir...
- moses-palmer 5y ago
  I think supply is not the only thing to consider. I suffered a SARS-CoV-2 infection around Easter, and received my first vaccine dose a week ago. The days after that I felt much worse that when I had the actual infection, albeit for a shorter time, so I personally would appreciate an official recommendation to not have to take the second dose.

GuB-42 5y ago

At the end of the article. > Ellebedy’s team has observed early signs that Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine should trigger the production of the same cells. But the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is we will need a booster.” The idea seems to be that an infection is like a single dose of the vaccine, so you still need another shot for the best immunity.